• New Sponsor: ShipNerd, Ship Your Gear with Us... for less! Click Here.

How to reconcile balancing an expensive guitarist hobby with life, bills and responsibility?

Newbee oldfart

Worlds longest running beginner guitarist.
Messages
698
What he's alluding to is the contrast between the circumstances faced by generations past and present.

In the UK, the generation that's presently retiring / is retired had: free university education (plus a maintenance grant), secure employment, final salary pensions (typically including a large tax free lump sum) and relatively cheap houses that were around 3-3.5 times average income in price. Nowadays, that's all gone away, and houses are around nine times income. Plus, if you're a first-time buyer, you're usually in competition with buy-to-let landlords who are well able to outbid you. And of course, if you went to university, you have massive debts.

So: no-one is saying that older people connived explicitly to 'pull up the ladder', but that is indeed what has happened.

The three-year thing is, I believe, pretty typical in academia - and of course, that much harder now with covid etc.
See my response above.
 

G3sal

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
244
No problem. I have a lot of respect for you. You have the self-awareness to recognize the issue, and the strength of will to do something about it. More people should be like you, brother.
Thanks for the kind words. The respect extends back from me to you.

This thread brings one other anecdote to mind: I was a bank teller back in the early 90s (just out of high school). I remember to get a credit card back then for an 18 year old or even a 20 year old was difficult. Wells Fargo wouldn't grant one unless they had employment history and proof that you were working. Furthermore, if you got approved they set the limit to $500 for starters until you showed you could make payments.

Now credit cards are given away like candy. Have been for at least 15-20 years.
 

Killed_by_Death

Senior Member
Messages
18,318
I had one of those 'starter' credit cards, you could only charge up to the amount in your checking account, just in case you forgot to pay, LMAO!

Guys at the auto dealership last week were telling me how I could get zero-interest loan, but think I'm fool enough to pay $30K USD for a pre-owned automobile. Ha-HA!
 

Killed_by_Death

Senior Member
Messages
18,318
Do it like the most prolific poster on TalkbASS, go into every shop & record yourself playing the most expensive instrument, then post the video here so that we can all cajole you into purchasing t.
 

j.s.tonehound

Member
Messages
7,473
Sorry for sounding disrespectful. Current Evening Standard UK says London has 3 times the number of millionaires UNDER, yes I said under, 35 years old in the world, outside of the U.S.A. " the research shows that a whopping 20,000 MILLENIALS currently living in the capital have over L1 million to their name. A quick google search shows 2,400,000 millionaires in the UK. That's over two million in a population of 67 Million, Roughy 3.5 %, which means there's 1 millionaire at every Rugby match. The Guardian reports that London has more millionaires than New York! Apparently, these people didn't read the why millennials can't make it without blaming other generation's memo. Try a different approach, you can do it too. Start your own business. I started mine over thirty years ago. Because of the nature of my very small business, (just me), I wasn't able to take a vacation for the first 21 years I was self-employed. only took a day or two off over the next nine years. That brings up the question, what are you willing to do to get ahead? Now, Thank God, and I mean that literally, I am retired and my daughter and granddaughter are running it and supporting us all. You reap what you sow, start a business now, so you can harvest when you're old. I wish you all the best and know you will make it.

Quote Reply
Does it say what percentage of those millenial-aires made their money the way you did? I'm presuming you were/are fully independent, no family funds seeding your way through. Also interested in what industries that money was made in.
 

Paul Conway

Member
Messages
5,670
See my response above.
So you seem to be saying that in order to have what was basically a given under previous generations, you have to be a self-starting millionaire?

I'm sorry - and I really don't wish to sound disrespectful - but this is so far outside the lived experience of most people here.

We're talking about the ability to cover the cost of a basic standard of living: food, utilities, secure housing, raising kids, perhaps a smidgeon of disposable income and not to face Dickensian living conditions in retirement. This was previously achievable on one income; now, you probably can't do it on two.

This has been down to many factors, including the infamous 'triple lock' on state pensions; limited controls on buy to let; no rent controls; few rights for tenants; destruction of unions; successive governments that pander to the elderly because they know they will vote for them (not just my biased opinion - it's well-established), etc.

Real world example: my old neighbour retired at 60, from a low-level facilities management job, on a final salary company pension (i.e. a fixed percentage of his leaving salary.) This pension would have been about 60-70% of salary plus a tax free lump sum. This would have cost him about 5% of salary in contributions (with tax relief on said contributions). His wife never worked. Nice house bought and paid for; new car; new motorhome; kids education paid for. Utterly unachievable for most now, including formerly well-paid professions.

The US is much different to the UK in many respects. The UK is basically a rentier economy rather than an entrepreneurial one. That's to say, most of the money is in property/land, much of which is in the hands of families from years hence. So a great deal of income just gets syphoned up to the landlord class and thus most of it does no work in the economy - it's not moving from business to business. Stagnant money that just gets passed on to the next generation.
(Personally, I think this is a terrible idea.)
 

Newbee oldfart

Worlds longest running beginner guitarist.
Messages
698
Not sure about their sources. My parents left me a ceramic horse and a 200.00 Sears and Roebuck rifle for my inheritance. It was great, they loved me and were great parents.
 

Paul Conway

Member
Messages
5,670
Thanks for the kind words. The respect extends back from me to you.

This thread brings one other anecdote to mind: I was a bank teller back in the early 90s (just out of high school). I remember to get a credit card back then for an 18 year old or even a 20 year old was difficult. Wells Fargo wouldn't grant one unless they had employment history and proof that you were working. Furthermore, if you got approved they set the limit to $500 for starters until you showed you could make payments.

Now credit cards are given away like candy. Have been for at least 15-20 years.
The story about how credit was let rip to replace wage rises and thus maintain purchasing power is a wretched scandal in itself.
 

neastguy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
15,556
I only use gig money to purchase stuff. .if it takes me a year of gigs to do it. .I wait.. or I sell something I have.. very seldom do I touch family money. Currently I got a stash of cash since the market stinks and I cant find anything I want.
 

Paul Conway

Member
Messages
5,670
I kind of think that in general, most of us have enough stuff. I'd like a 335 but I can get by without it. Arguably I need a steel string acoustic - would be useful for picking up certain gigs - but again, I can get by.

I hate to bring up the old cliché, but it is a bit of a 'first world problem,' in the main.

I seem to remember Pete Anderson having one Tele, one amp for a long time. Alex Lifeson only owned one guitar for the early Rush albums. John McLaughlin was another guy making some of the most renowned music of C20th on basically one or two guitars.
 

RichusRkr

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
925
buy what you think yo u can afford. there's gear for all levels that will do the job nicely. Can't afford a 3000 US PRS? get a SE or a Shechter. Don't want to spend 3 grand on a 335? get an Ibanez Artcore. There's guitars and amps for every budget..
 

LunarSF

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
201
Perspective: That $1900 guitar I bought in 1996 may be worth $5k now, but if I had put the money into the markets instead, it'd be worth $30-40k now. I'm not saying that you need to defer 25 years. But keep all purchases in context of your long term plan. -Every dollar saved has a potential return, and can make money for you while you are sleeping if you put it in the right spot and look after it. Invest EARLY in things that bring a return, like a house, a rental property, your 401k, etc. Then you can start to splurge more once you have the basics covered. Plan and act now, it's not going to happen on its own.
 

Rayzaa

Member
Messages
1,553
The fact that you can't keep a job for more than three years is no one else's fault. You either chose a bad career or are not as respected in your field as you present. People let go of dead weight, not the "respected " or good ones. You could start your own business if you have cash and such ability. You are not lacking because all the money is used up. Old folks have not kept you from succeeding. Take responsibility for your own actions.
This is a lot horse ****. Depends on what you do. There are many jobs/trades where the turnover is alot and many circumstances to it. Who are you to say?
 
Last edited:

Rayzaa

Member
Messages
1,553
I wish I could respond properly to your insults, but my identity is simply too easy to track down, and you just can't trust people on the internet these days, so...

All I can say is you really have no idea what you're talking about. Your life experience in the trente glorieuses is simply not relevant any more. At every single step of the way the bar is higher for people of my generation (and even higher still for those now coming into adulthood) than it was for yours. Period.

Old folks have not stopped my generation from succeeding?

Old folks:

- Benefitted from tuition-free university, and then instituted tuition fees for my generation

- Set the stage for many in my generation to graduate into the worst recession in a century (2008)

- Have allowed for a completely untenable housing market by refusing to allow new builds, especially high occupancy and mixed-use buildings

- Cut or kept wages flat across the board when they made it into positions of power and influence, pulling the ladder up behind them

- Set hiring standards that they, themselves, could never have met at our age


My generation, Millennials, is literally one of the poorest generations since the industrial revolution, relative to its contemporaries (i.e. Millennial share of wealth is compared to Xers, Boomers, etc. is lower than possibly any other generation that we can pinpoint in the past 200-300 years). Millennial net worth is roughly 1/3 lower than any other generation we have data for.

But, you're right....nothing structural happened to us. I should just start a business (why not just tell me to learn to code?).
Calling BS on this too. Are you kidding me?

Millenials dont want to work. They want to be Youtube, TikTok or Instagram stars, work from home and get paid to sit home from governmant padded unemployment.

All what you typed for Old people imo is ridiculous. There are new housing builds going on all over the US. Maybe where you live there isnt. Maybe look into moving?
 

Krausewitz

Member
Messages
3,441
Calling BS on this too. Are you kidding me?

Millenials dont want to work. They want to be Youtube, TikTok or Instagram stars, work from home and get paid to sit home from governmant padded unemployment.

All what you typed for Old people imo is ridiculous. There are new housing builds going on all over the US. Maybe where you live there isnt. Maybe look into moving?
This may shock you....in fact, you may want to sit down.

Are you ready?

*whisper* Not everyone lives in the United States! *whisper*

It's shocking, I know!
 

Rayzaa

Member
Messages
1,553
This may shock you....in fact, you may want to sit down.

Are you ready?

*whisper* Not everyone lives in the United States! *whisper*

It's shocking, I know!
I did say maybe not where you live and perhaps a move might be best. Idk.
 
Last edited:

Newbee oldfart

Worlds longest running beginner guitarist.
Messages
698
This may shock you....in fact, you may want to sit down.

Are you ready?

*whisper* Not everyone lives in the United States! *whisper*

It's shocking, I know!
Its OK, you are very welcome here. Come on over and lets jam!
 

Newbee oldfart

Worlds longest running beginner guitarist.
Messages
698
This is a lot horse ****. Depends on what you do. There are many jobs/trades where the turnover is alot and many circumstances to it. Who are you to say?
That's what I was saying, maybe he chose the wrong career if the jobs only last a few years before they sizzle. Hard way to plan for the future, you know with a track record of sustained uncertainty. Who am I? I am apparently an old fart that is not very good at handing out constructive criticism. I am "Dad" and that's what I do. What works in person sometimes doesn't with strangers on the internet. I was out of bounds in my presentation and came off as uncaring when my intention was just the opposite. Sorry. I wish him and you all the success in the world. Please forgive me.
 
Last edited:




Trending Topics

Top Bottom