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I am so frustrated...

Messages
48
I have had my Axe FX 2 for over a month now and no matter what I do I cannot use any of my overdrive pedals in front of the Axe and achieve any usable sounds. I bought the Axe to record direct like I did with my Eleven Rack while still using my pedals to push the front end, just like you would do with an amp. I have read threads on here about clipping, I have made adjustments to the input based on what guitars and pedals I am using and still just end up with a mushy over saturated fuzzy mess. My pedals and cables are top shelf and sound great with my real amps as well as other modelers. I bought the Axe knowing it had the best amp like characteristics of any unit on the market and now I feel like I am going to be forced to use only the internal overdrives that come built into the unit, which oddly enough sound good. I would just like to use some of the pedals that are my favs that the Axe does not have models of (Rockbox, Klon, Timmy etc.) Any advice would mean the world to me. Also posted on the Axe FX Forum.

Thanks.

P.S.I should mention I am already using the FX loop to run my Strymon Timeline and El Cap delays. I would think that I should be able to use an overdrive pedal right into the front of the Axe. I mean if it works on the Eleven Rack the Axe should support it even better since it is a superior unit. Someone please weigh in on this. I really dont want to spend more hours tonight trying to find a solution...it is getting very very old.
 

xjojox

Tardis-dwelling wanker
Messages
5,733
I've used a few pedals in front of my axe, but never to actually goose the input gain. The modeling magic starts inside, after the input. You need to goose from the inside. Goosing the front end of the axe itself really isn't useful, because the clipping you introduce happens before the signal even gets to the virtual amp.

There are plenty of great virtual pedals in there. If you feel the need to use a cork-sniff pedal, what in the world are you doing with a modeler? I can't begin to think of a tone I couldn't get with a bit of tweaking. But if you want to use pedals, that's fine, but you need to use them for their inherent tones, not to slam the front end.
 

Scott Peterson

TGP Co-Founder and Administrator
Staff member
Messages
37,734
What OD pedal(s)? What guitar are you using? What are your input trim settings? What is your Amp input trim settings? What are your output levels on the pedal you are using?

I'm assuming that you are driving the input into clipping.
 

Audioholic

Member
Messages
2,573
Should have bought the Kemper.
Even with Kemper if someone's levels are my right (input and output) it will sound not correct to horrible

If sounding mushy and fuzy strong chances there is to much gain happening somewhere if not clipping input or internally.
 

jb4674

Member
Messages
6,803
Should have bought the Kemper.
I don't think the Kemper would be any better at what the OP is trying to accomplish. Unfortunately, the Axe, Kemper and others don't offer multiple FX Loops, hence why the OP is having issues with clipping.

On a personal note, one of the appealing things that attracted me to the Boss GT-Pro long ago, was its ability to have 3 loops (one pre-loop and 2 mono loops or a single stereo loop). With these loops, the user had the flexibility to add any effects pre or post loop to the unit and place the post loops anywhere in the chain.

I hope this is a feature that perhaps can be added to the next generation of the Axe FX, as it would make things very flexible when incorporating additional effects into the unit. I think 4 editable loops (2 pre that could be turned into post and 2 post) that could be renamed to whatever the user wanted and moved around anywhere in the chain would make things quite useful :)
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
22,641
I think overdrive pedals work fine going into clean amp models.

The higher gain amp presets aren't served well by distorting the input signal. If you want to push an already overdriven preset it's best done inside the box.
 

MaxTwang

Senior Member
Messages
3,690
When using OD pedals with an amp you often set the pedal to drive the front end of the amp harder. With the Axe you will have to turn the output of the pedal down and use the pedal for its color and distortion but not to push the input of Axe. If you want to use your pedal with the Axe and get the effect of driving the amp model then add a block as a clean boost before the amp block.
 

Gasp100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
23,789
When using OD pedals with an amp you often set the pedal to drive the front end of the amp harder. With the Axe you will have to turn the output of the pedal down and use the pedal for its color and distortion but not to push the input of Axe. If you want to use your pedal with the Axe and get the effect of driving the amp model then add a block as a clean boost before the amp block.
Can you give an example of adding a block (what type) as a clean boost (including parameters?).
What if he used the actual FX Loop and put it in front of the amp block? Is this possible?
 

MaxTwang

Senior Member
Messages
3,690
Can you give an example of adding a block (what type) as a clean boost (including parameters?).
What if he used the actual FX Loop and put it in front of the amp block? Is this possible?
A Vol/Pan block or Drive block Null boost before the Amp block to drive the Amp block harder would be an alternative that can be turned on and off, If you don't need to turn it off the Input Trim in the Amp block would work. The Drive block now has a 'null' boost for neutral boost and an Xotic style booster, a graphic eq block or parametric eq block could be used also is you want to contour the tone. Since the OP wants the sound of his pedals the Vol/Pan or Drive blocks's Null boost would be the place to start.

The pedal can be in front of the Axe or in a loop, but the OP has his Strymon gear in the loop already so the loop is probably further down the line in his setup.

The Axe does work really well with pedals. I really like a Lovepedal Darling Devil Distortion in front, the DDD has a warm earthy quality that really compliments the Axe. The new drives added in recent firmwares are really good, the Zen Master and Eternal Love are outstanding.
 

RayRay

Member
Messages
2,505
What OD pedal(s)? What guitar are you using? What are your input trim settings? What is your Amp input trim settings? What are your output levels on the pedal you are using?

I'm assuming that you are driving the input into clipping.
This.

Can you provide some other details? It might just be a trim problem. Plenty of folks use pedals infront. I did but only for a mildly overdriven sound... Then I just moved to the Axe pedals (for a much better result, by the way).
 

Pietro

2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy
Messages
16,447
Not an Axe-FX, but I've discovered with other modelers (X3, ToneLab SE and now POD HD 500) that dirt pedals and boost pedals work way better in the loop. I don't like them out front. That said, I don't use them anymore (except my AMAZING xotic EP) because I think with proper tweaking, I can bet better sounds out of the dirt pedals (at least one or two of them) inside the box.
 

aleclee

TGP Tech Wrangler
Staff member
Messages
13,430
I've used a few pedals in front of my axe, but never to actually goose the input gain. The modeling magic starts inside, after the input. You need to goose from the inside. Goosing the front end of the axe itself really isn't useful, because the clipping you introduce happens before the signal even gets to the virtual amp.
Quoted for truth.

You're not necessarily going to be able to slam the "amps" with pedals unless you dial in the input trim. As was mentioned earlier, to get that slammed amp effect you can either add a clean boost in the grid or adjust the input trim on the amp block.
 

jrjones

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,387
Quoted for truth.

You're not necessarily going to be able to slam the "amps" with pedals unless you dial in the input trim. As was mentioned earlier, to get that slammed amp effect you can either add a clean boost in the grid or adjust the input trim on the amp block.
This. When I started using my axe-fx live the first couple weeks I used my pedalboard with it. I expected the ac30 sim to act just like my old vox. I couldn't slam the front end of it with a pedal like I was used to though because of the input trim (I, too, had the timmy, among other boutique overdrives) and over the last year or so I've found that I much prefer the sound of the internal drives instead of the boutique overdrives because I can make them slam the front end of the amp versus an external drive pedal out front just doesn't interact quite the same.
 

buddaman71

Student of Life
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
12,914
General comment: 99% of the issues I read with all modelers seem to result from users severely over-thinking their applications and lack of understanding that modelers aren't tube amps. Overdriving the input in ANY digital device results in clipping.

It's also perplexing to me how many users who simply want the sound of a strat into a tubescreamer into a blues deluxe, yet purchase a complex, state of the art tone generation device and are disappointed when it doesn't sound or behave like a strat into a tubescreamer into a blues deluxe...

The reason I went with a modeling rig years ago, is so I wouldn't have to deal with tapdancing on a pedalboard and all the potential issues that entails live. When I just want/need a guitar/pedal/amp tone, I just use my Rt 66 into my tube amp.
 






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