1. The Rules have been updated regarding posting as a business on TGP. Thread with details here: Thread Here
    Dismiss Notice

I Ching?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Caprica, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Caprica

    Caprica Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Location:
    Orion Nebula
  2. cmstrat

    cmstrat Member

    Messages:
    150
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
  3. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

    Messages:
    14,369
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Leesburg, VA
    A movement is accomplished in six stages

    And the seventh brings return

    For seven is the number of the young light

    It forms when darkness is increased by one
     
    huw, Hallogallo, derekd and 5 others like this.
  4. JonR

    JonR Member

    Messages:
    12,030
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Location:
    London
    Well, I watched the video and that's 8 minutes of my life I won't get back.
    It's simply an overlong description of the number of possible permutations of active strings. You don't need the I Ching to work that out. But then you don't need to work it out at all. No doubt a math nerd will find it interesting.
    (The answer is 63, btw; the 64th being no strings active at all - silence. And the conclusion? So what!)

    It has nothing really to do with music, and nothing to do with playing the guitar, as far as I can see. For any combination of strings - as he demonstrates in fact - there may be many chord forms. So it means nothing. Except possibly to open one's mind up to the maximum possibilities. Might be useful if you're tempted to start with a closed mind. (Tip: don't do that.;) )

    Likewise, his geometric patterns, which is another fun game, based on the circle of 5ths. It's momentarily entertaining to see the pretty triangles formed by triads and the 4-sided figures formed by 7th chords (a dim7 is a square!) - I worked out all these patterns myself many years ago, for fun - but it's of no practical use in guitar playing, and no help in understanding music. (The circle of 5ths IS useful of course, as I hope we all know, as is the idea of the chromatic scale as an ascending spiral.)

    IOW, it's as musically meaningless as the CAGED patterns are, and of less practical use. (At least the CAGED shapes relate to musical entities, even if the names are meaningless.)

    BTW, John Cage made use of the I Ching for his aleatory (chance) compositions. I.e., he used it like throwing dice, to create randomness of choice. That makes more sense to me than Martino's numerological games.
    I'm sure it helps him make sense of music (and/or the guitar), in a way he finds satisfying, but there's no reason why it should work for the rest of us. IOW, it's a personal perspective, not a practical theory or technique.
     
    gaseous, Paleolith54 and Caprica like this.
  5. dewey decibel

    dewey decibel Member

    Messages:
    9,314
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    we eat a lot of cheese and drink a lot of beer
    I Ka-Ching!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
    derekd, Bb7 and guitarjazz like this.
  6. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    31,863
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Its excellent for bringing on a migraine headache. :messedup
     
    The Captain, splatt and deeohgee like this.
  7. rumbletone

    rumbletone Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,164
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    Actually the cool cats were using the I Ching to compose back in 1950s!
     
    derekd, clayt0n, splatt and 1 other person like this.
  8. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

    Messages:
    17,123
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    There is a fair amount of musical architecture to ponder, particularly the ramifications and possibilities implied by the Circle of Fifths. Martino like to find links between that and guitar-specific architecture.
     
    derekd likes this.
  9. Bb7

    Bb7 Member

    Messages:
    118
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2017
    Location:
    NYC
    John CAGED = playing 4'33" in all 12 keys
     
  10. JonR

    JonR Member

    Messages:
    12,030
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Location:
    London
    The sound of the penny dropping ...

    :cool:
     
  11. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

    Messages:
    14,369
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Location:
    Leesburg, VA
    The beauty of 4'33' is that it's in all keys at the same time!
     
  12. Bb7

    Bb7 Member

    Messages:
    118
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2017
    Location:
    NYC
    But never the same stream twice.
     
  13. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    21,782
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Location:
    you might find me somewhere.
    not even the same feet.
     
    derekd, guitarjazz and Bb7 like this.
  14. cameron

    cameron Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    Lower East Side, New York
    Were Wang Chung into the I Ching?
     
  15. dsimon665

    dsimon665 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,446
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Location:
    19-tone, CA
    Cage's "Child of Tree" is one that used I-Ching and also "found instruments" - I like that one.
    http://percdb.szsolomon.com/cage-child-of-tree/
    I looked into it once... if you're having trouble finding poinciana tree pods, there's someone selling them on Etsy
    (just sayin')

    I-Ching is also called "book of changes" - so that's pretty relevant wrt fakebooks like the Real Book (which is another "book of changes")
     
    Caprica and splatt like this.
  16. benagain

    benagain Member

    Messages:
    517
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    New York State
    Awesome that he shares his insights so freely. Big fan of Martinos theory. Yes, a bit wacky , but I find it an easy way to categorize possibilities, vs a road map to a specific sound.
     
    GovernorSilver likes this.
  17. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

    Messages:
    12,160
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    In that Truefire course you mention, Pat wants you to learn augmented triads first, instead of major triads - effectively replacing the CAGED you know and love with a different "CAGED" (eg. the C aug. triad shape, A aug triad, etc.).
     
    Caprica likes this.
  18. kkregsg

    kkregsg Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,146
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Location:
    Portland OR
    I follow "Bing, bing, bing!" Ricochet Rabbit. Patron saint of ADHD guitarists everywhere.
     
  19. Bb7

    Bb7 Member

    Messages:
    118
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2017
    Location:
    NYC
    Caug'D

    sometimes you'll see it written Caug#D

    off B it's Baug'd
    off F it's Faug'd etc.
     
  20. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

    Messages:
    12,160
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007

Share This Page