I finally unplugged from my HX Effects and went straight in to my amp.....

[Karl Houseknecht]

Your purity as a player.

Filthy mudbloods! I’ll open the chamber of secrets on them!

I’m sorry…player purity? Do you get a ring or have you taken some kind of vow?

“I solemnly promise to have no effects before marriage.”

 

[John Mark Painter]

Purity and Tone Suck (tone change) are only relevant if you need that tone with no effects or pedals turned on.

My “problem” is that I rarely use more than two pedals at a time.
But I like options ready to go.
The options i enjoy having on hand are often destructive oddballs.

I don’t think Prince was too concerned about alll of the tone suck from his Boss pedals (I never really like his tone though but what do I know?).
He used ‘the suck’ to do what he wanted

 

[Blanket Jackson]

I think whatever makes you play more and be distracted less is what you should do. Straight in, lots of effects, one effect ... whatever works for you. Just play.

Cheers to OP for finding his sweet spot.

 

[TubeStack]

On a related topic, I have recently gone from using an HXFX in 4cm for a few years (with a buffer and a few pedals in front of it), to putting the HXFX in front of the amp and a Stomp in the amp's loop, and a couple pedals in the HXFX's loops (guitar going straight into the HXFX, no buffer or pedals in front). There is a noticeable improvement in high end and overall feel/response with the latter setup.

 

[Beyer260]

You can keep your multi effects geegaws, thanks.

I lived through the '80s, when far too many guitarists succumbed to the rapture of the deep and slathered themselves in digital sheen (I'm looking at you, Keef and Ron Wood). Today we all mock the horrible tones of that era while manufacturers are busy hawking much more powerful tools to let guitarists achieve tones that will be considered just as dated before long. Simply plugging an electric guitar into a tube amp and letting it rip sounds just as great as it ever did, though. I guess some guys just don't have the cran to make it work. I feel sorry for them.

 

[Detroit ABA]

Not to derail the thread but I have had a similar experience using the FM3 in 4CM method, I have been going back and forth on whether I hear/feel a difference when I plug straight into the amp vs. going into the FM3 with all of the pre-effects bypassed. Should there be any/much difference?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Whoa there. 3db down is half power. If you have a stereo playing and you pull the lead out of one speaker, the volume drop you hear is 3dB. That is much more than the lowest volume change people can perceive.

3dB is a doubling of power. But our hearing perception is logarithmic. A perceived doubling of volume/loudness is 10dB. Confusing? Yes, but that’s the way it be in dB.

 

[Antipodes]

3dB is a doubling of power. But our hearing perception is logarithmic. A perceived doubling of volume/loudness is 10dB. Confusing? Yes, but that’s the way it be in dB.

The resolution of our sense of loudness is finer than that.

Anyone can try it in their DAW - get an audio file, copy it to another track and reduce the volume 3dB. Listen to them by turns. Now try the same with 2 dB and 1 dB differences. What do you conclude?

Here's a quote I found online from an audio engineer:
Isaiah Haywood
, former Engineering Consulting, Technical Sales, Design at Northwest Automation Products (2010-2017):
It is my understanding that many humans can detect sound differences of as little as 0.5 dB, not 2db as you have stated. I can personally detect changes of .5 dB or less, depending on the frequency an Q of the change.
ge.

 

[Antipodes]

On a related topic, I have recently gone from using an HXFX in 4cm for a few years (with a buffer and a few pedals in front of it), to putting the HXFX in front of the amp and a Stomp in the amp's loop, and a couple pedals in the HXFX's loops (guitar going straight into the HXFX, no buffer or pedals in front). There is a noticeable improvement in high end and overall feel/response with the latter setup.

4CM involves long cable runs and that alone will cut treble noticeably. The lower the capacitance of the cable the better and putting the stomp in a short amp FX loop should help.

The other consideration is - do the converters on the FX loops on these units perform at the same level of quality as the converters and associated analog circuitry on the guitar input and main outputs. Maybe not. If you are going through the main input for the Stomp you are getting the full 124dB S/N of the Helix front end apparently. I don't think the loop return of the HXFX is quite that good.

 

[TubeStack]

4CM involves long cable runs and that alone will cut treble noticeably. The lower the capacitance of the cable the better and putting the stomp in a short amp FX loop should help.

Same cable lengths in both setups.

 

[TubeStack]

The other consideration is - do the converters on the FX loops on these units perform at the same level of quality as the converters and associated analog circuitry on the guitar input and main outputs. Maybe not. If you are going through the main input for the Stomp you are getting the full 124dB S/N of the Helix front end apparently. I don't think the loop return of the HXFX is quite that good.

Great point!

 

[mbenigni]

Has anyone actually managed to decipher what the OP meant? Or does that matter?

 

[Rekonizefull]

Line 6 has some good stuff. I remember the pod 2.3 and thinking how much better it was than the 80s 90s multi fx. It was a sign of things to come. I still love tubes but now days there's room for models too. The ease of recording is great. I'll keep using tubes and tech, sometimes together

 

[michael.e]

You can keep your multi effects geegaws, thanks.

I lived through the '80s, when far too many guitarists succumbed to the rapture of the deep and slathered themselves in digital sheen (I'm looking at you, Keef and Ron Wood). Today we all mock the horrible tones of that era while manufacturers are busy hawking much more powerful tools to let guitarists achieve tones that will be considered just as dated before long. Simply plugging an electric guitar into a tube amp and letting it rip sounds just as great as it ever did, though. I guess some guys just don't have the cran to make it work. I feel sorry for them.

But thats just it! NOW one can have that killer “thing” and insane versatility. Not just in tones but in rig set up.. then, talk about getting legit tweedy out of my Twin.
Coming from a guy who has owned and gigged WaaY more than should be legal.

 

[michael.e]

Has anyone actually managed to decipher what the OP meant? Or does that matter?

It does not matter. Unless to you.

 

[stratzrus]

There is nothing more noble with only plugging straight in.

Years ago I gigged plugging straight in. It wasn't about nobility, I just didn't need anything. HSS Strat into a blackface Super Reverb or lacquered tweed HRD for traditional Jazz covers.

Eventually I added a Zendrive to rock some Funk in the closing number if I thought the audience would go for it. But that was it. It's why I've said I really don't need anything more than the FM3 to gig with, and really that's overkill.

On the floor front to back; Fender channel switcher, Zendrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, blue 7-11 flashlight.

The FX8 did tidy things up a bit.

 

[Blackmoreguitar]

Has anyone actually managed to decipher what the OP meant? Or does that matter?

I believe it has to do with having your cake and eating it

 

[Seanspeed]

Has anyone actually managed to decipher what the OP meant? Or does that matter?

I think he's suggesting that there was a perceived advantage in 'plugging directly into the amp' in terms of pedals or modelers and whatnot degrading the quality of the tone to some degree when placed in front of the amp. But that for himself, when trying it, didn't really notice this and preferred to have that extra palate of options via pedals(or in this case, HX Effects).

I've heard this a few times and it's always seemed silly to me. Yea, it's certainly possible to hurt your tone with a certain amount of pedals or certain types of pedals with various different input qualities, but overall, and with a bit of playing around usually(having a buffered pedal up front, etc), it wouldn't amount to much.

For me, I've always considered the appeal of 'plugging straight in' simply being the raw simplicity of the situation. There's usually not a lot to tweak, you just have your core guitar tone and you can blast that and have a good time without any other distractions.

 

[Trick Fall]

You can keep your multi effects geegaws, thanks.

I lived through the '80s, when far too many guitarists succumbed to the rapture of the deep and slathered themselves in digital sheen (I'm looking at you, Keef and Ron Wood). Today we all mock the horrible tones of that era while manufacturers are busy hawking much more powerful tools to let guitarists achieve tones that will be considered just as dated before long. Simply plugging an electric guitar into a tube amp and letting it rip sounds just as great as it ever did, though. I guess some guys just don't have the cran to make it work. I feel sorry for them.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but this sure aint mine and I was there in the 80's too. I'd much rather listen to processed 80's style tones than some guy playing blues cliches on a Strat straight into a tube amp, or a modern metal guy plugged straight into a high gain super duper tube amp.

What's really great is that you have the ability to access those tones today for a fraction of the cost, or you can plug straight into an amp if you prefer. Personally I love creating highly processed tones with my HX Stomp, but I also love plugging straight into my tweed deluxe.

 

[Jwblanton]

I reached out to Mr Joamets as a fluke when Sturgill came to town years back to see if he wanted to check out my new Collings 290. Had a silver face champ in a 112 enclosure, some boutique “true bypass” pedals and a M9 in a loop. He graciously accepted my invite and came by, started playing and immediately asked if I could unplug the Line 6. Then assaulted the conference room with the most amazing riffs basically playing straight in. I still use Certain pedals even when I know they are computing sound right out of the rig, but there isn’t a question about how good things CAN sound guitar - cable - amp.