Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by standard24, Sep 8, 2016.
There's only two kinds of music: there's the blues and there's "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah"
I've taken the time to read this entire thread and there's really no sense in taking any time to comment on individual posts. Suffice to say that there are many (not all) people who haven't a clue of what they're talking about from either a musical or historical standpoint.
Opinions that are absolutely devoid of factual basis are useless. This thread in many cases reminds me of the stupid man on the street interviews seen on late night TV.
It's a blues. Is it not? Does she sing the blue notes in the song? The music was written by Charles Mingus who had more than his share of blues cred.
Who categorized Joni as anything? The point, which you sorely missed is that blues doesn't have to be boring because it can be presented in many different forms.
I never said Blues was boring, just that I enjoy playing pop better. To me the Mingus/Mitchell song sounds like jazz much more that it sounds like Blues, especially the vocal line.....
I hate metal.
And once again, nobody said that YOU said blues was boring. I answered your comment about categorizing Joni as a blues artist. Again...not said or implied. And if you can't hear the blues, jazz inflected as it may be in that song, and especially in the vocal line, I have nothing else to say.
Well, you certainly addressed your "boring" comment in a seeming response to my post, but whatever.....
If you say so.
I listened, determined my preference, identified the musical elements that contributed to that preference. That was independent of the players.
Then I found that I could sort the stuff I liked and liked less into two piles, and the pile that I liked less had a number of characteristics, including increasing whiteness, loudness, and recency.
The problem is that the Blues is no longer a living art form. Everything that is done is an imitation of what came before. No innovation or freshness. Boring.
When a player makes a guitar scream that's what holds my attention, but I will admit that shred = instant snooze feast for me.
there is no right or wrong regarding what genre of music a person should or should not like
nobody is keeping score or even cares
listen to what you like
don't be a dick
Then how do you explain Johnny Winter?
The first time I saw Johnny Winter, in 1976 with the same band as on Captured Live, at the Dothan, Alabama Civic Center, it was a rock show even though he played one long slow blues- "Sweet Papa John". But with that band, although I really dug it, it sounded more to me at the time like "blues rock" than "blues". I didn't see Johnny Winter again until a couple times after 2007. During the part of the show when there was another guitar player onstage it was more of a rock show. But when it was a trio and it was just Johnny Winter playing guitar it reminded me of the blues that I heard that sounded like weird music from another planet. He sounded just like a genuine blues man. And at that time, while he was the only guitar player onstage, he was a genuine blues man. He sounded like he was from the rural deep south. And whenever I hear that sound I immediately recognize it. I heard it in Charley Patton, Junior Kimbrough, and Charlie Feathers, and in the occasional cat that I would hear playing in a honky tonk in Alabama. I heard that phrasing and those microtones and slightly sharp minor thirds in both country and blues folks from the deep south. Although Johnny Winter was from Texas which might not technically be the deep south, the part of Texas where Johnny Winter was from, southeast Texas, was a lot like rural Louisiana which wasn't much different from parts of rural Mississippi which wasn't much different from parts of rural Alabama. It is something that I recognize because I lived there. Old country folks talked like that.
Love blues and respect it. Beautiful.
But I can't play just that, unlike a lot of other white people I know. I want to know it, to feel it deeply, and be actively influenced. Love all the masters.
But my taste is just too radically broad to do that mostly. I like music from all over the world.
I don't like being expected by other white people to be a blues purist. Part of me resents some element of the blues jams I attend.
There is just so freaking much to the world of music, I can't wrap my head around fitting into that box.
Blues -- real blues -- is such a small genre of a relatively few people, as far as the greats. Not counting the Joe Bonamassas of the world, or the John Mayers. I feel like the blues was built on the work of a relatively few people. What is the sense of spending your life trying to copy what a couple people did on a couple days they were recording? The artists themselves probably could give a crap what they played that moment. Then anything that is not a direct copy of that limited repertoire is considered not real blues. I think "real blues" is a pretty small selection of musical moments.
If I am honest, it makes me say "meh" when I hear Stevie playing Albert King licks -- the same ones -- over and over. He takes licks Albert played once and forgot about, and treats them like some gospel to parroted on a daily basis. I doubt Albert himself cares much about those licks, and for sure Stevie played them way more than Albert ever did. The first time I heard Stevie do that I was like, "hell yeah!" But then it was every time he played, not that I'm near as good as Stevie to criticize him as a player.
White people trying to be blues purists, or even young black people, are always going to have something missing.
To me, blues kind of died already, as far as the Golden age of it. The tradition didn't continue with much force, and get much better added to it. I think that, in part, that is because it was a little limited, and was too much defined by specific musical personalities. Clapton and Hendrix already veered off. The best blues people are still-living old people, like Buddy Guy.
Depends on how you want to define terms, of course, but I think there is a point to be made in there somewhere, nonetheless.
Part of the problem is that white guys think blues is a kind of guitar playing. It becomes this instrumental thing. Then ego enters ino it -- who can play the baddest GUiTAR SOLO. It's about guitar playing now. Who can play clever and fast licks. That is so far away from what blues seems to be IMHO.
Blues came from African working songs, from singing. All those songs, or most of them are lost forever, and were already fragmented when they were turned into blues. The original source for blues dried up, as those African work songs became distorted and fading memories of a distant African homeland. We, you know, quit bringing slaves over from Africa, and the African field songs dried up. We don't even know which songs blues originally came from, maybe with some exceptions.
BB King is hard to copy in part because he wasn't a guitar player mainly. He was more a singer supporting himself with a guitar. And his songs were not separable from a culture and manner of spoken dialect, which were not African but African-American. So the source for blues itself was limited and quirky.
For me there's not enough there to build a musical life on. Others may well find it to be more than sufficient.
But that only leads to raised voices and fighting
Do you at least recognize that the chord progression of the song in unequivocally a blues?
Heres a thought, If you dont like the blues or find it boring,,, Dont listen to it..
I hate Thrash Metal.... Cant stand it, and guess what, I dont listen to it.
And yet I still manage to not start a theard called " I dont get Thrash Metal' or " I dont like Thash Metal" .... ect.
I find brews really boring. Fast food really boring. Drills really boring especially when they're on.
Like it or not, blues is part of the DNA of modern music. It's the one common element among multiple genres of music, such as rock, jazz, country, metal, funk, soul, pop, bluegrass, gospel, etc.
I'm just saying.
Don't click on these discussions?