I Got A Fuchs ODS100 Mod, But.....

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by p.snail, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. p.snail

    p.snail Member

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Union, Ky
    I don't know what the heck I'm doing. It started out as a Musicman head. Now it's an ODS100. The cleans on this amp are amazing, but the OD isn't all that. I know I'm doing something wrong. I can't seem to get the OD channel up to the same volume as the clean. Also, I'm getting a reall flubby tone out of the low end even with the Master down. I've heard Andy's amps sound great, but I'm not real familiar with these amps so how the heck does the OD work in this thing? Can I change the power tubes out and will that clean up the low end? Also, do these amps behave well with a Hotplate? The problem might be that the amp isn't up loud enough, but my god it will kill you at any reasonable volume. Thanks for any advice.
     
  2. Jerrod

    Jerrod Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    11,121
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Good god man, call Andy Fuchs first, not The Gear Page.
     
  3. doctord02

    doctord02 Member

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    +1

    Andy is a helpful guy; start there first.
     
  4. Rob Livesey

    Rob Livesey Member

    Messages:
    165
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Hi,

    Congrats on the amp. I don't agree with the first response. This is a great place to come to when you get a fuchs amp, so many people here have experience of them that it's bound to help. Andy is very helpful though, so if it turns out that you do need work on the amp, there's no problem in getting that arranged.

    First off, in my experience of my own mod amp, you may have trouble getting the OD to be louder than the clean unless you have the amp up at a decent level on the master. My own mod amp is an absolute beast in terms of power and perhaps this doesn't help the situation. I have half power as an option which does help though. Investigate what kind of options the amp has, you may have half power in which case it will allow you to wick the amp up a bit. Also, don't go mad with the eq's and settings. A good starting point for everything is 5 and work from there. That's all controls except Master and Reverb, also, Bright switch OFF, Deep switch OFF and Rock/Jazz ON (as a start).

    Bring up the Master and reverb to taste, then switch to OD and try to dial in the volume of that channel with the OD Output knob, at low volumes you may have to have this around to 3 o'clock, or even 4. As the Master goes up, you can back off the OD Output and still get a good balance between the two channels.

    My settings rarely go below 4 or above 6 on anything except the master, reverb and OD Output.

    As for the flubbiness, this does not sound right at all. You can call Fuchs amps a lot of things but I've never heard Flubby used. This could be a tube issue, power tubes perhaps (age or bias). The internal trimmers in the pre-amp may have been messed with, which I've never done, so I don't really know if that could be the cause. It could even be the speakers you are using, these amps like high powered, cleaner sounding speakers.

    Hope this helps, Good Luck,
    Rob.
     
  5. aeolian

    aeolian Member

    Messages:
    6,083
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA.
    If the amp has a loop, try putting something in the loop that will let you turn the level down. You have to switch the amp to series mode. On my Fuchs Music Man mod, the loop in/out controls are push pull pots. One switches between series/parallel (you can tell which one this is as the amp goes off in series mode with nothing plugged in), the other switch is a -10/+4 dB control for using pedals or pro-level rack gear.

    If you turn the amp way down and try to get a lot of OD output, I guess you could call it a bit loose, maybe flubby. Again, getting it up in level will help. You could probably pull two of the output tubes if there is a 4 ohm tap on the amp.
     
  6. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

    Messages:
    7,484
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Bloomfield, New Jersey
    Thanks Rob and Steve: That's a recently done Music Man mod. The Music Man power supplies (because they use voltage doublers) tend to have a little bit less bass tightness than other amps do. Simply the nature of the circuit. The master should be run (average) around 12.00 to 2.00. This gives the user a decent range up and down, whether clean or dirty. Unless you want to drive the pants off the OD, then run it lower and input gain higher. With the master at 12.00 or above, both clean and dirty levels should be easily matched. The average input gain position should be about 10.00 to 12.00 usually, but can be run higher if your trying to drity up the clean side.

    I usually set the clean tone first (with master in midrange area) then work on the OD tone/level afterwards.

    I can tell-'ya, that amp had smoked mad-booty when I play tested it. The MM 130's have crushing clean headroom and that manifests in a good OD tone too. Don't be afraid to play with the settings.
     
  7. Rob Livesey

    Rob Livesey Member

    Messages:
    165
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I recently had a Musicman HD130 here and I seriously considered having it modded.....it was just such a nice amp, a nice size, power, trannies, and everything else. But, at the end of the day, how many Fuchs amps do you need? :AOK ........
    Rob.
     
  8. p.snail

    p.snail Member

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Union, Ky
    I know the amp has great tone and lot's of gain on tap. It's just laid out a little different than I'm used too. I love the amp don't get me wrong, I just need to keep cranking on it. The cleans are about as sweet as anything I've ever heard. They easily rival the Matchless Clubman that I had. One last question. Can I use this amp with a Hotplate or Mass attenuator? I also saw that you guys are getting ready to put out an attenuator of your own. Will that one work with my amp? I'd really like to goose the power section a little and see if it's just petering out at the output stage. I might not be pushing it hard enough.
     
  9. p.snail

    p.snail Member

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Union, Ky
    I'm already thinking about another one. I'd like to try one of the 'Wreck inspired amps. The BlackJack still looks pretty cool to me.
     
  10. Rob Livesey

    Rob Livesey Member

    Messages:
    165
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I don't think that the Fuchs "power brake" or whatever it's called is designed to work with these amps. I don't feel the need to use one with mine, the sound at lower volumes is really great so I don't worry about it. I DO use a hotplate with my marshalls though so I know what you're talking about. I just don't think they'd work with the ODS.

    Rob.
     
  11. Boomer

    Boomer Member

    Messages:
    1,912
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    Hollywood, FL
    I believe that use of an attenuator on the ODS or TDS line invalidates the warranty.

    I've had an ODS-30, ODS-50 and TDS-50 and found no need for the use of an attenuator in Madison Square Living Room but I have no idea what a modded amp may need in the way of levels to sound good.

    I do use a HotPlate with my Train 45.

    HTH
     
  12. aeolian

    aeolian Member

    Messages:
    6,083
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA.
    Having a 100W or 130W amp is going to get you into trouble in a lot of places. I've been playing my factory ODS100 with two tubes pulled out for the last six months and haven't found any occasion to put them back in. Maybe this summer as the outdoor festivals come round.

    I'd seriously consider if the power you have is appropriate to your uses. Maybe find some inefficient speakers to soak up some. I've little experience with attenuators but they seem to kill the life of the amp if you make any significant cuts in level. And what you have with that mod is an amp with a LOT of life.
     
  13. Fuchsaudio

    Fuchsaudio Member

    Messages:
    7,484
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Bloomfield, New Jersey
    As always, we're behind schedule, but the prototype Conductor is completed, and once I get back form NAMM, I hope to finalize the testing and packaging.

    No, I agree with Rob, you shouldn't need one, once you get a grip on properly running the ODS. While some folks feel the need to yank tubes and hit the output stage harder, it's not imperative to good tones (clean or dirty). THe Music Man would likely be a little less saggy on the low end running two tubes, as long as you adjust the impedance of the speaker to match the change. Heck, I get complaints that people's 30's are too loud...

    We really do not advise using any attenuator on an ODS (mod or production), but the Conductor is a somewhat different approach than any of the other units out there. We looked at many of the offerings out there, and my co-Engineer on the project and I came up with a different circuit approach that should theoretically look more like a speaker to an amp than any of the other approaches out there. Thus, it should keep an amp behaving more normally than some of the other units do, and sound better doing it. More news as it become available. If it plays well with the ODS and TDS, we'll change our position on it.
     
  14. p.snail

    p.snail Member

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Union, Ky
    If I pull two tubes out what will that do to the impedance of the amp? Can I still use my 8 ohm cab?
     
  15. wgs1230

    wgs1230 Fully Intonatable Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,362
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Location:
    On The Bus
    13 repies and not a single mention of the speaker type? Admittedly, it's complicated: the loose lows suggest the cones might not be handling those freq's well and your solution is higher efficiency, but that will only exacerbate the loudness problem (assuming...).

    My experience with Andy's ODS is limited to in-store fiddling, but my gut reaction was that speakers with a strong low-mid voicing (e.g. the CV30) aren't the best choice for clarity/note separation at higher gain. You should take a poll: what are ODS players using for drivers?
     
  16. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,777
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Read the production ODS manual to get the idea on all of the knobs. It's different, but you need to get how the In and Out & the cascaded Gain work.
    An attenuator isn't really the idea to me, since This style of amp gets its juice from the preamp.
    You should have no problem getting the volumes balanced, nor getting great distorted tone at bedroom volume - my Fuchs mod does.
    What is your "In" knob set at?
     
  17. p.snail

    p.snail Member

    Messages:
    786
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Union, Ky
    I played this weekend and I just ran a Tonebone into the front of it. It sounded awesome. I am going to screw around with it some more this week. I just didn't have time to fiddle with it before my gigs, I just used the Tonebone and my Fulldrive. This amp takes pedals better than my Matchless did. I can't believe the response this thing has. Very cool.

    On a side note, my cabinet is a Hughes & Kettner Triamp cab. One of the older ones. I'm fairly sure this cab has greenback 25's in it. The new Triamp cabs have V30's I think. This cab isn't as scooped sounding.
     

Share This Page