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I love the modelers

Messages
761
This has nothing to do with that other thread, promise! :)
Just wanted to share few thoughts that came to my mind recently:
1. when you think about it it is really, bloody amazing what modelers allow us to do. Currently my main patch is an Orange AD30 into 4x10 super reverb cab miced with 57 and 121 with a couple of drives/effects before or after (Klon, SD-1, clean boost, phaser, tape echo delay, hall reverb). Now, it isn't even that fancy - no parallel paths or ambient, otherworldy effects, but it's unfathomable how I could ever end up with such a chain in an analog world - would took me years of going through various amps and cabs and effects and mices and would cost me thousands of dollars. Truth be told I probably wouldn't even go into that direction (4x10 cab? Orange amp? that one?). And what's also crazy, if you ask me a week from now I could maybe have a totally different rig from the one I use now.

2. I tried a GE Labs app a few days ago (GE Labs is to Mooer's GE series what Native is to Line6 Helix) and I got a cool tone out of it in 5 minutes. I know this seems contrarian to the 1st point, but what I want to say is that modelers got to such a level that almost any of them could get you a decent tone now, even the cheap ones. Which is crazy! and liberating in a way - you can still do the "chasing the tone" thingy (where I'm with that Orange), but if needs be you can grab any modeler around not worrying it will sound s**t - it's a plug&play fun with them now.

And then add to that the mobility angle (you can even run you modeler on the phone), the ease-of-use angle (think of all those IRs, with all those mices and how easy you can switch between them comparing to traditional way of micing the real cabs in the real studio) - it's really amazing what we have at our hands as players these days. and if you're only starting with guitars? it's almost ridiculous
 
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GuitarGalah

Member
Messages
537
Absolutely!
First off, in an obvious defense of older tech, I have a boutique pedalboard and hand-wired tube/valve amps (see avatar). They're great.

Don't use them that much, compared to modeling though. Helix often sits in the lounge, with a Powercab. Still at THR levels (also great-loaned to a mate).
My old mustang has been given to another friend, who loves it. There is mild regret for such a nice loud and light combo... but the reward is better.
I use Native fairly regularly in the DAW (Reason, for reasons).

I did spend a fair bit of money searching for acceptable options however. Getting into modeling (at least partially) is easy and sounds great - now.
I felt like I spent a fortune on stuff that wasn't quite there. Then I look at the levels of spending involved in @rubytopaz and his search, and I feel better.
 
Messages
761
I'd also add that there's still huge room for improvement for the modelers. Maybe not as much in terms of the tones alone (law of diminishing returns), but in terms of form-factor, UI and capabilities. I imagine few years from now we'll on one hand have even more powerful modelers allowing us to configure any nitty-gritty detail we want (think Axe FX, etc.) and create some crazy paths and configurations, but in an easier way than it is done now (Quad Cortex is a good example of the direction we're heading to); and on the other hand products that will be super easy to use, grab-and-go, possibly standalone (in either pedals or combo formats), allowing players to use them without knowing a thing about, for example, what IRs are, what each components from the analog world are (different lamp, speaker, lamp types), what FRFR is, etc. etc.
 

MikeMcK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,019
I have to agree with a lot of this. I checked out some really early modelers and stopped thinking about them. But when I got tired of loading in on duo gigs where I split between acoustic and electric (especially where load-in involved parking lots, long ramps and the occasional set of stairs), I started thinking again.

I was hemming and hawing about justifying prices when I had no idea whether I'd be happy with the whole thing. Then I saw Pete Thorn's video on a $300 modeler (NUX MG-30). I've still got some tweaking to do to get it right, but it does the job, without sounding like those nasally "digital distortion generators" that get lost in a mix.

I still prefer an amp, but my hate for yacht-club staircases often outweighs my love for my Hayseed 30. I'm already thinking about the next step up the modeling ladder, but mostly for logistical and ease-of-use reasons. My cheap-o solution sounds pretty good and I understand it can be better if I choose to get vested in this particular pedal (e.g. buying a couple of 3rd-party IRs)
 

fr8_trane

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,143
I'd also add that there's still huge room for improvement for the modelers. Maybe not as much in terms of the tones alone (law of diminishing returns), but in terms of form-factor, UI and capabilities. I imagine few years from now we'll on one hand have even more powerful modelers allowing us to configure any nitty-gritty detail we want (think Axe FX, etc.) and create some crazy paths and configurations, but in an easier way than it is done now (Quad Cortex is a good example of the direction we're heading to); and on the other hand products that will be super easy to use, grab-and-go, possibly standalone (in either pedals or combo formats), allowing players to use them without knowing a thing about, for example, what IRs are, what each components from the analog world are (different lamp, speaker, lamp types), what FRFR is, etc. etc.
Oh there's alot of room for improvement. I love modeling but in general the input section (analog input and A/D converter) is a weak point. Its nowhere near as dynamic as the input to real tube amp. And for someone like me that thinks a real cab is the only way to go, power amp tech needs to improve beyond the flat sounding SS amps we currently have available. The digital preamp and power amp modeling is already there IMO because the recorded tones are indistinguishable from tube amps.. But something is lost in translation at the input and output sections. You cant hear it in a recording but you can feel it when playing in the room especially when A/B'ing with a real tube amp.
 
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Messages
761
Oh there's alot of room for improvement. I love modeling but in general the input section (analog input and A/D converter) is a weak point. Its nowhere near as dynamic as the input to real tube amp. And for someone like me that thinks a real cab is the only way to go, power amp tech needs to improve beyond the flat sounding SS amps we currently have available. The digital preamp and power amp modeling is already there IMO because the recorded tones are indistinguishable from tube amps.. But something is lost in translation at the input and output sections. You cant hear it in a recording but you can feel it when playing in the room especially when A/B'ing with a real tube amp.
I know, I know, I know - modelers are not as good as the real thing and I’m sure for many will never be. The question is if, how and in what scenarios that’s still important
 

Toby Krebs

Member
Messages
2,152
I use modelers for convenience and also because where I live we have 100 plus degree temps from April to October.My tube amps do not like to be run hard outdoors in that kind of weather.My Gigboard/Katana 100 and Headrush FRFR cabs don’t care about the heat and they have taken heat/dust and vibration for over 50 gigs thus far and the season isn’t over yet.And I like the tones.Jazz/blues/pop/rock/punk/country/funk all there all day long!
 

vourot

Member
Messages
473
We are all absolutely spoiled to death. Between my GT-1000 and Fender GTX I am left wanting for nothing.
 

fr8_trane

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,143
I know, I know, I know - modelers are not as good as the real thing and I’m sure for many will never be. The question is if, how and in what scenarios that’s still important
I'm all in on modeling. The weaknesses I'm talking about are small but noticeable to me. I'm still looking for that last 5% but its not something that distracts me from enjoying the huge advantages of modeling. I will continue to focus on things that are much more important like becoming a better player.
 




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