I need help with a cab simulator. I think!

Khromo

Silver Supporting Member
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1,459
(I searched for what I think I am looking for, but I figured no one would mind too much if I started a new thread, for technically challenged folks like me!)

I am pretty much lost in some earlier technological period. To give you an idea, I don't know what "IR" means, and that is just the beginning of what I don't know about modern guitar tech!

First, let me explain my situation. I am a full time electric bass player, with a very sweet "sit down restaurant gig"! (Down since March or so, but this is a very healthy, established business and they will survive.) Just a kick-ass keyboard player and me, playing baby jazz, baby classical, standards, a little middle Eastern ethnic music, kind of quieter fusion. The keyboard player (and yes, his name really is Wolfgang!) is the guy with all the talent, and I am along for the ride, probably because we are friends and I can play and read a little.

Wolfgang is bugging me to double on guitar, and I am compliant because I know there are a few other guys lobbying for my job. Maybe four or five tunes a night, for starters. I don't mind playing guitar, but I am not nuts about humping twice as much gear. This joint has a medium size lounge, with an excellent PA system, which they started letting us run ourselves, once we demonstrated we could do it without destroying anything or burning the house down. I use a small bass amp and a DI for the bass, mostly because I much prefer it as a monitor as opposed to IEM's, and because I am a dinosaur. For guitar, I need low to moderate volume, clean to lower gain, nothing fancy.

I need to get a DI arrangement for guitar that will sound really good, so I don't have to hump a guitar amp. This is what I have been using:

LMXIbTc.jpg


Turbo Tuner > Diamond Compressor > Ceriatone Centura (set for gentle boost and a hair of overdrive, just a hair) > Keeley Delay Workstation > Radial Pro DI, a passive direct box. It seems to sound okay, but the gear hound in me thinks I am giving up a lot using the Radial DI straight into the board.

My full-time guitar player friends, very few of whom care much about gear, have suggested I need to replace the Radial with a cab simulator/DI. That makes sense to me, but I am really a babe in the woods here, and I figured this was the place to get some more refined help.

So I don't need a lot of features, like an Iridium (and the lack of an XLR out bugs me!). I don't need to spend a lot of money for a few tunes per evening (But it absolutely has to be good, I will buy at least a "mid-fi" solution!), and I don't have a lot of room here!

Please help the helpless! With what could I replace the Radial DI to get a more realistic, miked cabinet tone?!?!
 

I R P

Silver Supporting Member
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1,428
Something like the GFI CabZeus would be perfect for this. You could also check out the Hotone Binary, Hotone Omni, Shift Line CabZone, Joyo Cab Box, or Mooer Radar.

All these devices just load the IR (impulse response) digitally, so if you load the same IR onto all of them, they should sound pretty much the same. Just look for build quality, form factor, extra features, etc.

For IRs, essentially they take a tone, run it through a cab and a mic, then subtract the tone, so all you are left with is whatever is added and subtracted post-amp.

Some people use analog cab sims as opposed to digital (IRs), but the consensus seems to be that digital is better. Analog is less noticeable to me, more transparent; sometimes you can forget they’re even on— not so with digital. Analog is just an EQ adjustment if I’m not mistaken.
 

Soon42

Member
Messages
97
Few days ago I bought myself Darkglass Element (cab sim with 5 presets, xlr out, usb computer recording capability, aux-in, bt-in, 2 headphone jacks). For me it is mostly headphone amplifier, but you may want to use it differently. There is also mobile app, where you can eq the sound via bt to your liking. You can load 3rd party IRs (free or bought) via simple computer software (via usb cable).

By default it has 3 irs for bass and 2 for guitar. IRs are basically wav files 50mb each stored on the device and shaping the sound. I bought few very nice sounding guitar amp IRs from York audio, they sound a step better than the default ones! Darglass is mainly bass effect company, so at least one of those default IRs for bass should sound good..

Ps some cab sims use 44khz IRs, some 48khz IRs, some 96khz IRs. Sellers may include several options of IR wav files for you to choose from. Also several mic brans and models that were used to create these IRs. If you happen to buy yourself IR from York: choose one of those mixed IRs (mix of various microphones).

gl
 
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Khromo

Silver Supporting Member
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1,459
Much thanks for all the great responses! I knew this was the right place to ask the question. I R P's explanation was very useful, and helped me along a lot!

I narrowed the field down to the 2 Notes Torpedo C.A.B.M+, the GFI System Cabzeus Mono, the Hotone Omni, and the Joyo R-08 Cab Box. This was largely based on the XLR outs on these pedals, where the others had TRS or unbalanced outs.

Size constraints seem to narrow it down to the Hotone Omni, which also looks to be the least expensive. I am going to order one up, and see if it doesn't get the sweet DI output I would like to hear!
 

Khromo

Silver Supporting Member
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1,459
I hooked up the Hotone Omni IR to give it a listen, and I was very impressed with the sounds. There were a few quick, bright, chimey settings and a lot more thicker, rock tones. I found a few presets that will work for what I am doing, and I'm sure once I settle into some more features I will dial in a lot more tones.

The construction looks a little delicate for something that will be getting plugged in and out a lot. It is easy to read, and it seems to be pretty easy to use. It definitely sounds light years better than using the passive Radial DI. There are a lot of believable tones in there!


XwYxQxs.jpg


Thanks for the help, gentlemen!
 
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ericb

Gold Supporting Member
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11,006
Hi guys, for his purpose, why would he want just an ir-loader without Power Amp sims? I'm actually looking for something like this again... I've owned the Torpedo Cab and the Mooer Radar in the past, and both worked perfectly but I had bought them for computer recording and decided I didn't need them, as I had software to do the job. Now I'm looking again for a live scenario with my band using a tube preamp and pedalboard. . BUT don't I want to hook that into something with power amp sims AND IR loading (like the 2 I owned previously . . ha) ? What am I missing? :)
Eric
 

ericb

Gold Supporting Member
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11,006
Digitech CabDryVr. Small, standard 9v power, sounds great to me! Only catch is you can’t load your own IRs.

I’m happy enough with the onboard IRs.

The OP already bought a cab sim/IR loader pedal and is set. Was this post aimed at him? I don't think it was an answer to my post as this also doesn't include power amp sims anyway ??

Eric
 

TheSpricket

Member
Messages
735
I had a similar concern. Using a cab sim like that is great but it's important to use a good dirt pedal with some amp like quality. So I was delighted to see he added the Simble. I'm sure that and the verb can sound very good with a cab sim into any PA or recording interface.

I'm currently using an ADA GCS3 di cab sim at home for headphone playing and recording. When I play out I'm always using big clean backline amps so my pedals are really where all the sound comes from. I use a Zvex Distortron on all the time with some reverb and that seems to make most lifeless clean amps sound dope.

I always prefer to use an amp but I'm looking forward to the day I get to use this dandy cab sim live.
 

ericb

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
11,006
I had a similar concern. Using a cab sim like that is great but it's important to use a good dirt pedal with some amp like quality. So I was delighted to see he added the Simble. I'm sure that and the verb can sound very good with a cab sim into any PA or recording interface.

I'm currently using an ADA GCS3 di cab sim at home for headphone playing and recording. When I play out I'm always using big clean backline amps so my pedals are really where all the sound comes from. I use a Zvex Distortron on all the time with some reverb and that seems to make most lifeless clean amps sound dope.

I always prefer to use an amp but I'm looking forward to the day I get to use this dandy cab sim live.

So you don't think it's necessary to use a power amp sim before the cab sim? To me if you're using a preamp-type pedal, you then need power amp and cab sim. Whatdya think? I have nothing to experiment with here, other than if I interface with my computer I guess, as I just downloaded a power amp sim software last night... Guess I'm gonna have to do it! :)

Eric
 

I R P

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,428
So you don't think it's necessary to use a power amp sim before the cab sim? To me if you're using a preamp-type pedal, you then need power amp and cab sim. Whatdya think? I have nothing to experiment with here, other than if I interface with my computer I guess, as I just downloaded a power amp sim software last night... Guess I'm gonna have to do it! :)

Eric

I think it depends on the style of music you play. If you play clean, the power amp is pretty transparent and not a huge factor. I don't think the average player would notice if it was there or not. If you play very high gain and you rely on power amp distortion and tone coloring, then you would probably go with a setup that includes a power amp sim.
 

I R P

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,428
Digitech CabDryVr. Small, standard 9v power, sounds great to me! Only catch is you can’t load your own IRs.

I’m happy enough with the onboard IRs.

IIRC, the CabDryVr is an analog device and doesn't use IRs.
 

JimHalinda

Member
Messages
964
Definitely digital with IRs, see Tom Von Kramm’s comments at the link below. The IRs were taken from his own personal cabs (read in some other TGP thread I can’t find right now).

 

LimehouseBlues

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
374
Much thanks for all the great responses! I knew this was the right place to ask the question. I R P's explanation was very useful, and helped me along a lot!

I narrowed the field down to the 2 Notes Torpedo C.A.B.M+, the GFI System Cabzeus Mono, the Hotone Omni, and the Joyo R-08 Cab Box. This was largely based on the XLR outs on these pedals, where the others had TRS or unbalanced outs.

Size constraints seem to narrow it down to the Hotone Omni, which also looks to be the least expensive. I am going to order one up, and see if it doesn't get the sweet DI output I would like to hear!

I've got a hot one omni ir... It's best in it's class for the exact reasons you mention: only small form factor ir pedal under $200 with xlr out.

You can spend more and get more, but based on your described needs... You don't need more.

One recommendation: I swapped the preloaded IRs for some quality third party IRs and it sounded better. York audio files in my case.
 

I R P

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,428
My
Definitely digital with IRs, see Tom Von Kramm’s comments at the link below. The IRs were taken from his own personal cabs (read in some other TGP thread I can’t find right now).


My mistake, I think I had it confused with the OmniCabSim.
 

Khromo

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,459
For my purposes (mostly clean tones, very light overdrive, at moderate volume into a very good built-in system), I'm getting all the coloration I need using just the Omni cab sims. There is actually a lot more "effect" than I expected, and certainly compared to the passive Radial DI.

There are a lot of presets that I won't use, but I may see about replacing them with some third party files. I hope it holds up, because it is going to get some use. It will make doubling a lot easier!
 




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