I need your thoughts on some bluesy rock improvising

Discussion in 'Member Video and Sound Clips' started by Soulman, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    I know the tone is well... BAD, but that's my primitive recording technique and I was in a hurry.

    I wan't to know what you think of the playing. Is it OK?

    It's a one take attempt at a backing I heard minutes before...but I knew the song.
    There are some bits where I'm fumbling my way through to the next idea, but generally it represents what could be defined as my current "style" of playing.

    Just a note...don't tell me I should have played more slower, longer notes...I played what I felt like at the moment I recorded, so I wasn't in a slow and romantic mood.:cool:

    Here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7NiTefIg0M

    You guys are some of the best and most knowledgable crowd on the 'net so please: help me find my way!
    :JAM
     
  2. TheTrowerFreak

    TheTrowerFreak Member

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    Well, anymore I don't offer this kind of thing, but I'm sitting here with some time on my hands ...

    A million ways I could attack this, I'll try and do the most good with the least amount of typing -

    If I were your face to face teacher, there's no way I'd let you take chorus after chorus of that modge podge of confused, unmusical horse poop.

    You've put some practice in and show promise (or I wouldn't be writing this) but you are totally lost as to what to do with the skills you've worked hard for.

    You're not phrasing - your bends are out of tune - you're not hitting target notes at the chord changes - you're playing across bar lines - you're not even close to maintaining a tonal center / key - your timing stinks - your finger vibrato is bush league and way behind your other skills - your control and use of the vibrato arm is very poor.

    The best I can tell you long distance via the Internet ... Get a simple backing track and a simple 12 bar solo that fits it (there's a ton of books/CD's for this) and lock yourself away on those 12 measures.

    No video taping, no stage moves (lose the "let go of the neck" shtick) no vibrato arm, no flashy "look I'm Robben Ford" licks ... practice those 12 bars until they speak. Work separately on your finger vibrato and then back to the 12 bar solo - work on your tone - then back to the solo ... etc.

    You have to know what it's supposed to sound like and accept nothing less. You're not being musical with the ability you have and that's a sin ... I think you sorely need a face to face teacher. Find him.

    MikeTTF
     
  3. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Ouch!:horse

    I'm happy you took the time to comment.

    However, I think you completely missed the point and intention of my playing.

    Claiming I am missing tonal centers and have bad vibrato and "out of tune bends" is just... horse poop. Sorry.

    I am really trying to be humble, but I can't when somebody misses the point this much.

    If you wanted to hear long bluesy notes or me playing like Trower, that's you're wish not come true.

    I've done the the 12 bar "blooze" thang and it bores me crapless...I'm trying to go somewhere else.

    I guess the real problem is that I, without really thinking about it, chose a Muddy Waters backing to play around with and i guess the "International Bloose Police" goes into red alert immediately.

    I really wanted to avoid doing the usual series of Albert King-SRV, Clapton-Trower ecc. licks letting the notes run over a bar or two.

    Sorry about me being harsh, but I have been playing on and off for about 25 years and I really don't need to be patronised.

    I need some serious advice from somebody who understands where I am trying to go.

    Or am I just having a bad period?:mad:
     
  4. TheTrowerFreak

    TheTrowerFreak Member

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    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well Bud ... it's like this -

    You should've left this out of your header post ...

    I wan't to know what you think of the playing. Is it OK?

    And this comment insures that I'll waste no more time on this ...

    Claiming I'm missing tonal centers and have bad vibrato and "out of tune bends" is just ... horse poop. Sorry.

    MikeTTF
     
  5. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Yeah...don't. Thanks.
     
  6. abergdahl

    abergdahl Member

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    I sort of agree with TheTrowerFreak, if you listen to Scott Henderson and Jeff Beck for example they do NOT play traditional bluuz, is a lot of whemmy tricks, strange outside notes but you can hear that they know what they are doing. What we see int this video is wanking with poor phrasing and tone. So in my view the playing is NOT ok (not that i would have done it better). Outside licks needs to be mixed with excellent phrasing and in tune bends otherwise it just sounds bad not outside. I get nos sense of that you have any idea of what you are trying to do in this clip. I have done the same from time to time, played some cool weird **** that at the moment sounded quite ok and fun. When listening back later i realise that it sounds awful.
    Agian, i do not wan't you to sound like SRV or B.B. i understand that you want to mix rock lick and outside tonality in to a style of you're own. Keep om that path but DO learn the roots, blues, rock and jazz and the result will be much better.
    If you can't hear that what you play here sounds bad you need to start there. LISTEN to you're playing and others, what sounds good in others playing why does it sound good and why does you're playing sound not as good....
    Just being honest here...:BEER
     
  7. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Drats...I guess I am getting too heated up about this, but I really don't hear anything wrong harmonically with this stuff. It sounds even "too normal" to me. What worries me is that I am not getting the message accross ... obviously.

    I know EXACTLY what I am playing and why, even if it was invented on the spot and the only part that sounds bad to me is the hesitant tempo I had when I first grabbed the whammy bar and a few fumbled notes in the scale runs.

    There is absolutely nothing "wierd" about that impro to my ears...it's just straight playing over a 12 bar, the way I LIKE IT. I guess I'll just play to myself from now on.

    This thing is freaking me out. :mad:
     
  8. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Oh yeah...the tone sucks...but I said that at the begining.:moon
     
  9. marinblues

    marinblues Member

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    I must say that I read the comments first and I was expecting God-knows-what.....

    After seen the video, I have to say that it wasn't that bad.

    Now, I understand that you probably listen to a lot of rock and whammy guys like Scott Henderson and that's ok, everyone has the right to embellish music as he pleases. After all, no one has a copyright to what blues is and, in order to make music move a bit forward, new things need to be introduced.

    On a general note, I my humble self where you, I would introduce more pauses into the playing, I mean they're notes after all and they psychologically help to be play a lick in a more meaningfull (how pretencious!) manner. So, don't hurry....the tape is not going to run out! :)

    Also, it's good to think of the solo as a story, like something with a beginning, middle and end. It kind of makes the solo interesting and creates some tension.

    I'd say, that if you apply those 2 things above, you would already be able to produce much better stuff.

    And that's just some 0,02€ from wannabe part-time guitarist like myself.

    Marin
     
  10. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Thanks Marin,

    the problem is that I thought I was doing all that you said I should be doing....especially in the second part.

    And yes, I do listen to "rock guys" and "fusion guys" and "blues guys" and "indie guys" and "techno guys" and....
    I'm just going to have to pack my bags and leave for a planet populated with other wierdos like myself.
    I wanted to blow...I didn't want to drive carefully and admire the scenery...
    You "blues crowd" are even worse than the "jazz crowd". :crazy

    I'm leaving.
     
  11. marinblues

    marinblues Member

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    Well no. I'm just saying: relax, take it easy, listen to your notes, don't play what you thing should sound right but play what feel. Forget everyone else, their expectations and above all your own.

    It's like cooking, you have all the right ingredients, but perhaps you're not adding them into the pan at the right time.

    There is just a bit of a "ready-steady-go-its-blues-licking-time" approach.

    When these things happen to me, it I am usually the problem and simply playing another day (when I am perhaps less stressed and better concentrared) I play better.

    I now that I am not constant, hence I could never be a pro....:Spank

    M.
     
  12. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    Marin, what you are saying is true...I am in a speedy stressed out mood...but what bugs me is that really like what I played there, imperfections and all.

    I am really pissed off because I often get praised for stuff I consider boring and ordinary and usually get labelled as "messy, nervous, too fast,mindless(insert armchair critic adjective)" for stuff of mine that I REALLY LIKE.

    That's why I'll NEVER be a pro. That's why I don't want to be one.:cool:
     
  13. Brick

    Brick Member

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    I'm not going to comment because ffolks are offering constructive criticism that you don't want to hear.

    And rather than a "you are playing well but...." advice thread it's turning into a "but..but...but..." argument thread.

    You can't argue with people when they tell you how they hear your playing.

    I don't think anyone here would take shots at you just to do it. They are taking time and offering advice to make you an even better player.
     
  14. marinblues

    marinblues Member

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    Well, in another life, I actually played in a jazz band and I wasn't a jazz player so I was a bit unsure about my solo lines. The drummer (who was older and more experienced) came over and reassured me:

    "Don't worry if you make a mistake - just repeat it and it will appear intentional":AOK

    Now (before the jazz-police starts shooting Perhsing missiles)no matter how unfounded my drummers reasoning might be, what I am trying to say is: if you believe you have something going and you like it - be persistent and prepared to fight prejudice. It is a difficult and lonely root and you will sometimes have to miss out from reassurance from your peers, but the reward at end might be priceless. In the worst case, if you can't handle it , you can always buy a brainwashing session with a teacher and learn to play like everybody else and no one in particular! :eek:

    M.
     
  15. Kappy

    Kappy Member

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    I can't believe you asked people on the Internet what they thought of your playing and you got bent out of shape when someone had some criticisms. I thought TheTrowerFreak's comments were pretty accurate --and though gruff, they were meant to help you improve the weaknesses he perceived in your playing. Not everyone actually gets told the truth in this context. I think you should have thanked TheTrowerFreak for not holding anything back (regardless of whether you agree with his points --and I'm not saying it wasn't okay to disagree).

    Next time you start a thread like this you should say "here's a clip of my playing, please only reply if you like it". Then you'll get all the answers you want to hear and there won't be any room for the pain/discomfort/awkwardness that triggers evolution/maturity/improvement.
     
  16. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    I know I'm coming across as a 12 year old even though I'm 40.

    However guys, the real intent behind this post was to verify if similar critcism received in other places was a general consensus or not.

    I am usually pretty humble and insecure about my limited playing abilities, but if you think my bendings are out of tune... sorry, that's just not true.

    And I did thank TF for commenting. Then I told him I disagreed.:rotflmao

    I work a lot to get those bendings and they sound beautiful to me. The speed is just right...heck I'd buy the record!

    I'd probably be the only one, judgeing by your comments. :)

    I just wanted to verify something for my own personal growth and I think I've managed to do so.

    Thank's to everybody for your opinions.
     
  17. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    You are right...I'm just being passionate. I can't understand how people don't like something I really like! All that hard work thrown away!!!:BITCH
     
  18. Soulman

    Soulman Member

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    NOW THAT'S THE BEST PIECE OF ADVICE TODAY!

    Beer's on me!:BEER
     
  19. marinblues

    marinblues Member

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    thanks, but don't forget that if you embark onto the first route, you lose the priviledge of asking for advice.

    You can say: "Hey, I really like my stuff, do you like it as well?".

    I feel that that is the invisible implied forenote of most posts here. Given that this is a polite forum, people reply if they like it and refrain when they don't.

    It doesn't really leave a lot of room for telling you what to do in life since liking your own stuff isn't really debatable or negotiable and you're not asking for advise.

    cheers

    M.
     
  20. KarlH

    KarlH Supporting Member

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    maybe not play so many notes.... try to play the few you chose to play cleanly... The tone wasnt the greatest, but if your execution was clean and confident, it would sound a whole lot better. that marinblues guy plugged direct into his Boss Dr Rhythm and it sounded kick ass (and those things sound like crap).

    I like your playing in this clip alot, tho...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5LJBb9Rtg&mode=related&search=

    nice playing on that one.
     

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