I think I've got issues...relics make me angry

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rhinocaster

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What if I am a liar? What does it matter in the grand scheme of things?
No "what if" here.....I suppose you'll find out what happens in the grand scheme of things.

The funny thing is you could have just owned it but that was too big an ask of you. You're a joke from here on out on TGP.
 

xmd5a

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No "what if" here.....I suppose you'll find out what happens in the grand scheme of things.

The funny thing is you could have just owned it but that was too big an ask of you. You're a joke from here on out on TGP.
Maybe, but you still have to live with the fact that you own a relic'd guitar.
 

rhinocaster

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Maybe you're a liar? You seem waaaay to disturbed by my dislike for relics not to have some skin in the game.
Well, you'd have to establish that I'm a liar like we've established that with you.......and I have no "skin in the game" as I own no relics. So, again, you have nothing...

You want to finally address your attempt at redacting your post and claiming that you never said what you said? You keep pretending like it doesn't exist. It makes you the joke of the year...
 

xmd5a

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Well, you'd have to establish that I'm a liar like we've established that with you.......and I have no "skin in the game" as I own no relics. So, again, you have nothing...

You want to finally address your attempt at redacting your post and claiming that you never said what you said? You keep pretending like it doesn't exist. It makes you the joke of the year...
You're coming off as a little unhinged.
 

rhinocaster

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You're coming off as a little unhinged.
Coming from a liar, that doesn't mean much. :)

EDIT: Honestly, none of it means much, but it does stick in my craw when someone blatantly lies here. Different opinions are fine but when someone decides to lie and manipulate like you did in this thread, I find it extremely distasteful and I can't imagine that person sticking around and pretending like it didn't happen.

But you be you!
 

The_Bell

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As I was saying a few pages back, people don't hate things for no reason, it has some sort of cause. And hate isn't necessarily a bad thing, it means you're passionate about something. For me, it's the fetishizing of all things vintage and American made, seeing good stuff made overseas, or good stuff made yesterday, get rejected out of hand. Having new guitarists think their $200 Squier they got for Christmas is crap, and that they should get a $2,000 MIA, but which will never be as good as a $20k 60's Strat, all because of the things they read on the Internet, is a disservice to them. Relic guitar's are the physical manifestation of that mindset, that old American guitars are superior to a new foreign made instrument. The people who own them say "I just like they way they look and play", and I just don't buy it. You have to pretend the last twenty years of Internet didn't happen to buy that.
I get where you are coming from with this post. And forums are weird places, not always conducive to making a point. Trying to help those who want to learn and learn from those who want to help, maybe they are better for that.

Isn't there a flipside to how your perspective could be used? What you are implying is that there is sleeper gear people are overlooking? Couldn't finding underhyped, underpriced gear be a spin on that point of view?

That is what I do. And I don't care if anyone doesn't like my modded plywood Korean Squier, it rocks. And I don't worry about what others are chasing too much either.
 

xmd5a

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Isn't there a flipside to how your perspective could be used? What you are implying is that there is sleeper gear people are overlooking? Couldn't finding underhyped, underpriced gear be a spin on that point of view?
"underhyped, underpriced" gear is sort of an oxymoron because the hype drives up the price. I'll call attention to a Joyo pedals, or Tonerider pickups or VM Squiers that are 99% of the more expensive counterparts at 25% of the cost, but the bias towards expensive vintage spec gear is a hurricane force wind. Companies like Fender and Gibson dump tons of money into marketing the idea. Aging rock stars talk nostalgically in interviews about their old gear from the 60's. I'm not happy that a lot of said rock stars will be passing in the next decade, but maybe some of the vintage craze will go with them.
 

The_Bell

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"underhyped, underpriced" gear is sort of an oxymoron because the hype drives up the price. I'll call attention to a Joyo pedals, or Tonerider pickups or VM Squiers that are 99% of the more expensive counterparts at 25% of the cost, but the bias towards expensive vintage spec gear is a hurricane force wind. Companies like Fender and Gibson dump tons of money into marketing the idea. Aging rock stars talk nostalgically in interviews about their old gear from the 60's. I'm not happy that a lot of said rock stars will be passing in the next decade, but maybe some of the vintage craze will go with them.
I like Tonerider in the older CV I tried. I am planning on giving my nephew a VM soon for his first axe - because everyone needs a black strat.

My thought was just related to not worrying about what others want, like, appreciate, value etc. I'm gonna stop watching this thread, I think it is past its prime.
 

CassetteTape

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I got over it by playing FCS relic guitars. Generally speaking I've found them the best new guitars fender makes.
This is valid because Fender is taking their best woods, materials, time and talent and putting it into relic guitars. So if you want a nice FCS you'll have to hunt hard to find a good FCS NOS like I finally did. They are available, but not as common.

The fact that a new relic instrument fetches far more than a used instrument with honest play wear is comical and proof that the relic crowd is more into superficial than genuine.

Thank goodness previous generations took better care of their things so we have vintage instruments that are still playable. Can you imagine what they'd be like if Leo Fender was dunking them in salt water to form rust and dragging them across a driveway, artificially aging plastics and exposing wood to the elements 70 years ago?

You can make a guitar have that great "played in feel" by having a properly shaped and finished neck. Rusting a bridge, gouging a body, cracking finish or denting a headstock does absolutely nothing for tone or play ability. It's all fake aesthetic and negatively affects the lifespan of the instrument.

But, as I said earlier, I try to just move on because I can get really worked up about it.

And as an aside: MANY guitars are being made better today than they were in the 50's and 60's. Gilmour himself said he can't tell the difference.
 

xmd5a

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This is valid because Fender is taking their best woods, materials, time and talent and putting it into relic guitars. So if you want a nice FCS you'll have to hunt hard to find a good FCS NOS like I finally did. They are available, but not as common.

The fact that a new relic instrument fetches far more than a used instrument with honest play wear is comical and proof that the relic crowd is more into superficial than genuine.

Thank goodness previous generations took better care of their things so we have vintage instruments that are still playable. Can you imagine what they'd be like if Leo Fender was dunking them in salt water to form rust and dragging them across a driveway, artificially aging plastics and exposing wood to the elements 70 years ago?

You can make a guitar have that great "played in feel" by having a properly shaped and finished neck. Rusting a bridge, gouging a body, cracking finish or denting a headstock does absolutely nothing for tone or play ability. It's all fake aesthetic and negatively affects the lifespan of the instrument.

But, as I said earlier, I try to just move on because I can get really worked up about it.

And as an aside: MANY guitars are being made better today than they were in the 50's and 60's. Gilmour himself said he can't tell the difference.
Imagine what Leo Fender would think if he saw the relic craze, "I could have just not finished the guitars at all."

If people like relics for the feel, any of that can be done without faux aging. Satin neck finish and rolled edges, for example, take away the sharper edges and sticky gloss typically associated with new guitars.
 

CassetteTape

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"VM Squiers that are 99% of the more expensive counterparts at 25% of the cost
Sorry, this just isn't true. The components, materials, woods and finishes are different. A quarter-sawn piece of perfect maple for a neck comes at a cost and provides tuning stability and longevity to the instrument. The butter smooth fret ends and rolled fretboard edges vs snagging cheaper frets and sharp edges is a very different experience. Also, pickups, fretboard radius and even frets themselves are different options from FMC that aren't available on other models. You don't "need" the higher end guitar but to think a $200 Squier is 99% of a Fender Custom Shop or boutique build? A Mexican strat with a little work might be 50%. An AVRI could be 75% based on those I've owned and played. But 99%?

Also, The best Strats aren't even made by Fender. The best Les Pauls aren't made by Gibson. Many boutique builders have better instruments, but they aren't necessarily less money. If you want the best strat ever, just get a PRS Silver Sky.
 

xmd5a

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Sorry, this just isn't true. The components, materials, woods and finishes are different. A quarter-sawn piece of perfect maple for a neck comes at a cost and provides tuning stability and longevity to the instrument. The butter smooth fret ends and rolled fretboard edges vs snagging cheaper frets and sharp edges is a very different experience. Also, pickups, fretboard radius and even frets themselves are different options from FMC that aren't available on other models. You don't "need" the higher end guitar but to think a $200 Squier is 99% of a Fender Custom Shop or boutique build? A Mexican strat with a little work might be 50%. An AVRI could be 75% based on those I've owned and played. But 99%?
The thing about an arbitrary number is that it's arbitrary. I have $300 VM's and a $2k AVRI to compare, and I think a lot of what you mention is blown out of proportion for it's own sake. Rolling the fret board, you can do that at home in a few minutes with a file. Other aspects of quality, not worse, just trivially different, often vintage correctness for it's own sake.

Also, The best Strats aren't even made by Fender. The best Les Pauls aren't made by Gibson. Many boutique builders have better instruments, but they aren't necessarily less money. If you want the best strat ever, just get a PRS Silver Sky.
Well that's just common sense.
 
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xmd5a

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2,194
Sorry, this just isn't true. The components, materials, woods and finishes are different. A quarter-sawn piece of perfect maple for a neck comes at a cost and provides tuning stability and longevity to the instrument. The butter smooth fret ends and rolled fretboard edges vs snagging cheaper frets and sharp edges is a very different experience. Also, pickups, fretboard radius and even frets themselves are different options from FMC that aren't available on other models. You don't "need" the higher end guitar but to think a $200 Squier is 99% of a Fender Custom Shop or boutique build? A Mexican strat with a little work might be 50%. An AVRI could be 75% based on those I've owned and played. But 99%?
To add, if a guitarist never read about all this wonkish details like woods and materials, and were none the wiser about brand or price point snobbery, it would definitely seems like a <1% difference. They don't see if the body it two piece or seven piece. They don't know if the finish is lacquer or urethane, or if the pots and caps are vintage style under the hood, or even that theres a difference in the first place. A new guitarists has to be educated about why they should want a $2k AVRI, because I assure you it's not readily apparent.

If we're talking from an audience's perspective, the difference is easily less than 1%. If you put tape over the logo, the difference would become 0%.
 
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