I use effects on hand to build what "new" effects do. Do you?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by ERGExplorer, Apr 13, 2016.

  1. ERGExplorer

    ERGExplorer Member

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    Normally when I see a "new" effect pedal being released, I spend some time with what I have to generate the same effect. I might not have a use for it right away, but one never knows what the future holds.

    So, I was reading a recent topic about the 30ms, which inspired me to build patches on different multieffect pedals, from the Zoom line up to the POD HD.

    Many of the Zooms, for example, have Detune with a predelay parameter of down to 0ms. Using it once will obviously give you one extra voice. Stacking two of those in a row can be done either in identical timings (5ms will give you notes at 0, 5 and 10, for example) or non-ratio delay times (stacking timings of, say, 2 and 3 will give you timings of 0, 2, 3, and 5). And, of course, many of the Zooms also give you many different reverbs to mix on top of that.

    The POD allows you to move two different detune/delay stacks to different signal chains in the same patch, and then send those to the appropriate reverb.

    And on the Beatle-specific patches, I can add amps/cabs which further nail the sound, on the multis which have those.

    That's just one example of a specialist pedal I can save money on. (In the case of the Zoom, the inexpensive G1on at $50 would have saved me $150 over the cost of the new pedal had I needed to buy the Zoom from scratch, but since I already owned it for other things, I saved the whole price of the new pedal.)

    Anyone else here who spends time instead of money on the latest and greatest thing?
     
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  2. MattLeFevers

    MattLeFevers Member

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    I like that mind set, of at least trying to construct the sound yourself first. Not to say I always remember to do it before getting caught up in The New Thing, myself, but I think it's good advice.

    I've been following these B9 and C9 organ simulators that EHX makes, and I read somewhere that two of the key components to what they are doing internally are octaves and chorus. Next gig, I tried turning on my Micro POG and a chorus pedal at the same time and instantly had a totally usable organ sound. So I successfully cured myself of at least that one craving.

    I will say that sometimes I still get a new pedal even after I've figured out a workaround though, just for flexibility. I was stoked to realize I can use my Flashback delay as a chorus pedal by setting it to "modulate" then turning the repeats down and the effect level up - but a month later I still bought an inexpensive chorus pedal, because otherwise I'm tying up my favorite delay mimicking a chorus.
     
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  3. gearscrubs

    gearscrubs Supporting Member

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    I wish I did this more. I've fallen prey to the "bright new shiny thing" phenomenon far too often, when I can get super close with stuff I already own.
     
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  4. aisling

    aisling Silver Supporting Member

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    I always assumed that my patriotic duty to consume would eventually address all my effect needs. Ironically, those new shiny boxes always create a hyperinflated demand for more new boxes. I have started going back to using what I have and holding off on the always buying something new. That said i'll probably buy and EHX freeze.
     
  5. Barnzy

    Barnzy Member

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    I'm often trying to create new sounds from combining the pedals I already own. I always run two amps in a very simple buffered A/B split. Well putting a chorus on one side and a phaser on the other is a really rich sound. The Diamond Halo Chorus does this in a single pedal format, but I ended up liking the two mono pedals (Boss CE-5 and Phase 90) in each signal chain better and sold the Halo. Another cool idea is to add a delay to each signal path and set their times to compatible but different for effect. I have a CC and an aquapuss that work great because the max times are 600ms and 300ms respectively. So you get this cool rhythmic, ping pong effect that I'm sure a big stereo delay rack or a Strymon can do. But carving that out of two analog pedals sure was fun! I am looking to try separated octave up and octave down stuff, but haven't got the pedals for that yet. And don't get me started with stereo overdrives...one for each channel. Tons of fun. Anyway, for a cool, BBD analog reverb in a mono signal, just stack your delays into one another (short few repeats and really low level, into medium, longer repeats and low level.) Sounds great as a nice ambient wash of reverberation.
     
  6. Squatch57

    Squatch57 Member

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    This used to happen a lot in the analog/digital synth heyday. People buying the latest shiny synth before they'd learnt to use the old one
    95% of the Yamaha DX7's that went to technicians hadn't even been tweaked from the factory presets
    Analog synths weren't around long enough for people to discover the possibilities, then digital hit in 1983
    Luckily a lot of youngsters got into techno in the 90's and rediscovered the old analogs
     
  7. northstar6000

    northstar6000 Member

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    It's certainly a good mindset. I have the Zoom MSCDR 70 and a Line 6 M5 which I can use to create all manner of fx. The thing is it takes time. Plus having a POG2 just opens up my realm of possibilities. I swear everyone should own a POG2.
     
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  8. Fred Farkus

    Fred Farkus Member

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    You can always use simple stuff for building blocks to make complex stuff. Comp->HOG/POG->Chorus/Leslie give you the organ sound. I created shimmer reverb with a couple delays, chorus and my HOG. Etc and so on. I love the EHX DSP gear but a lot of it is stuff they have already released, re-packaged in a different way. E.g, my Ravish Sitar does pretty much the same pitch shift effect of my HOG and so on. Get familiar with what's going on in the more complex FX. Your imagination can go a long way here.
     
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  9. ERGExplorer

    ERGExplorer Member

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    I first stumbled upon the faux organ sound years ago using a Boss PS-3 running stacked octaves into a reverb pedal. I started stacking PS-3s to get further, and then the HOG and POG came out at some point. I think the additional features on the HOG and POG really took things to a new level.

    Because of the granularity of the pitch shifting, I think reverb is a better choice to cover the "edges" of the grains, and additionally (assuming one is using a reverb capable of 100% wet and with sufficient attack diffusion) you can get that polyphonic slow attack of the POG/HOG gear.

    The POG2 really hits most of the sweet spots for this kind of effect. Most folks don't need the added harmonic sliders and additional effects of the HOG/HOG2.

    Electro Harmonix really hit it out of the park with this effect family.

    I sometimes use models of modulated delay as a modulation effect, after reading through the excellent instruction manual for the Yamaha UD Stomp, which covered all kinds of effects that unit is capable of. Again, hats off to Zoom in this respect, as the modulated delay in even the lowly $50 G1on allows a delay time of 1ms and up, letting people experiment away.

    Since you mention exploring what a delay pedal can do... I often use a delay effect as a resonance pedal for getting
    comb filtering (low delay times, high feedback) to emulate a resophonic guitar.

    And if the delay allows a really short interval, you can sometimes get an effect that sounds like FM synthesis or ring modulation, getting you bell-like metallic tones but without some of the harshness of RM. If you have more than one signal chain, you can even set each chain to a different set of pleasant resonances, giving more melodic possibilities.

    I really love my TC Electronic Nova Modulator, with the dual effect engines. As the LFOs can be synchronised, I've gotten a lot of great combination sounds out of them, including the full range of Electric Mistress sounds (yup, even Filter Matrix mode by a combination of chorus in slot one with rate at 0, and phaser with phase predelay controlling filter position in slot two.

    Combining delays is great. I regularly read through the textural/ambient topics for delay combinations, as well as more specialized topics like the Boss DD-500 mega topic where someone started applying ideas from the 2290 to the Boss... with the bonus that the ideas are equally applicable to the Zoom and Line 6 gear, and even the Boss GT-10.

    I do like that the POD HD, Helix and GT-10 have parallel signal chains *and* the ability to have delays and modulation effects at the same rate. The complexity level for patches expands tremendously.

    Absolutely.

    I always highly recommend Bill Rupert's excellent Effectology series on YouTube, as well as his work with other gear. His demos for Roland/Boss are similarly inspiring, and he brings the same mindset and imagination to every piece of gear he uses. The demos of his more experimental Kemper profiles, like synth and organ tones, are mindblowing. I'm very happy that @baranger1 is a member here.

    I also highly recommend reading the 36-part series Synth Secrets from Sound on Sound, available on line, for an idea of how to build specific tones.

    This seems kind of like saying a Tesla is a repackaged pennyfarthing bicycle, because they both have wheels.

    Both have pitch shifting, but there is a lot more to each which doesn't overlap with the other.

    To me, repackaging is more like the MicroPOG and NanoPOG, or using the same topology in various groupings of BMP pedals but with different enclosures.
     
  10. MattLeFevers

    MattLeFevers Member

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    That sounds fun. I'll have to try this next...
     
  11. Squatch57

    Squatch57 Member

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    I like to use my Wounded Paw blenders so I can have three different effects loops happening and still have my clean
    Apart from preventing everything turning to mush you can get some cool effect combinations
    an example: having a Slow Gear type swell pedal on one channel so the note or chord swells in slowly,
    then having a SuperEgo and delay (Vox time Machine, wet out) on another channel.
    If I mute the clean output, I can get a note or chord to swell up and the delayed freeze sound hit when the swell peaks. A cool effect
     
  12. Kilometers Davis

    Kilometers Davis Member

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    When I had them, I combined a micro POG and a small stone and also got what I considered to be a convincing organ tone.

    My frontman just swooped up a ehx Lester g earlier this evening... I'm thinking I can cop a similar sound with my stereo delux electric mistress set to a fast rate and my tube vibe set to a slow rate :D
     
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  13. James

    James Member

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    Yes, I think it's beneficial to spend time working with the gear you have than chase the latest new gadget. Quite often, you can find new sounds in the gear you already have.

    I love that Trey Anastasio quote from his rig rundown video: "I believe that being familiar with your gear is more important than having really good gear."
     
  14. Fred Farkus

    Fred Farkus Member

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    One of the nice things you can do with the HOG is to use the envelope controls to get B3 percussion sounds.


    Bill is the man. I started watching his EHX demos years ago when he posted them on another forum I used to hang at. I didn't realize he was demo-ing Roland/Boss as well. I'll check them out.



    Absolutely. There are vast differences between what the HOG and the Ravish are capable of. But on the other hand, I have no need for the Mr. Freeze or 95% of the organ sim stuff, since I have the HOG. (I do like the electric piano sim in one of the organ pedals but otherwise...) I was just pointing out that things do get reused a lot.
     
  15. ERGExplorer

    ERGExplorer Member

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    @Fred Farkus - Just as an observation, in the unlikely event that EHX made some kind amazing combination pedal which brought together all the elements in the HOG2 and Ravish Sitar, and even the Mel9 (which also has elements lacking in the rest of the line), and did so before I wind up dying, I'd be all over that.
     

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