I want to start using my Shiva's Effects loop

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by benabloom, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. benabloom

    benabloom Member

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    Hi All,

    Here is the skinny. I have my pedalboard dialed in, however I have too many pedals chained together on a Pedaltrain Pro, and want to switch to a 2 board (PTjrs) set up. 1 going into the front of my amp, and one through the effects loop.

    My reasons are for traveling convenience (2 samller boards vs 1 big), to minimize tone suckage and get some responsiveness back between the guitar and the front end of my amp. Also, I find that the Wiggler gets muddy and in-efficient when slammed with boosts and gain.

    Here is my current chain . Wah > COT50 > Keeley Comp > PH350 > 8823 > MK2 or other Germ fuzz > KLON >EHX WIGGLER >Dr Scientist Trem > Volume Pedal > Line 6 DL4 > Analog Man Analog Delay > Shiva

    I am thinking about doing Wah > Cot>Comp > MK2 > KLON> Trem > Amp
    and

    Phaser> Vibe(wiggler) Volume Pedal > A. Delay >Dl4 in the loop.

    I have never used an effects loop so any advice would be great! Does this sound like a good idea? The purpose of the volume pedal is to swell into delays.... will it work this way in the loop ?


    Comments... suggestions.... advice...?
     
  2. monk

    monk Member

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    I don´t like phaser and vibe effects in the effectsloop, but it might work for you. I use my phaser and vibe pedals before gain pedals. The DL-4 is not designed to be used with an effectsloop. I tried it and didn´t like the sound. Maybe you should get another delay, a rackmount or a midi delay pedal like the Eventide instead. Otherwise you´ll have a lot of cable length to and from the pedalboard.
     
  3. benabloom

    benabloom Member

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    Hmm.. Is cable length an issue with regards to using an effects loop ?

    Would 15 ft of cable 2 and fro be OK ?

    Based on my set up, I cannot put the Phaser or Vibrato before my gain pedals . Wouldn't putting them in the loop be a work around?

    thanks for the help...
     
  4. monk

    monk Member

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    Maybe my ears are too sensitive but I can´t stand tonesuck from effects in the effectsloop. Can you bypass the effectsloop with the footcontroller? The DD-20 has a +4dB switch and sounds better in a loop IMO. Try the vibe and phaser pedals in the loop. I think the swoosh will be too apparent. Many pro players use a mixer like the Suhr minimix to keep more of the analog signal when they use digital effects in the loop. Look at Scott Hendersons pedalboard and rack setup for example. He has the usual fuzz, gain and modulation effects at the pedalboard and a small mixer and rackmount delay in the loop. Mike Landau has a similar setup.
     
  5. Glowing Tubes

    Glowing Tubes Gold Supporting Member

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    I believe Bogner requires a special cable when using the effects loop in the Shiva? I recall having to use something a little different due to its design. I'd check with them about it. Also,Delay usually sounds better in the loop, other stuff is subjective. I'd weigh the hastle of doing all that to the improvement of performance of your effects.

    Good luck.

    RC
     
  6. JeffE

    JeffE Member

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    Hey Ben,

    Off subject...but I see you put your COT50 before your compressor. Is this so you can roll off the guitar's volume and still get the COT to clean up without the compressor trying to level out the signal?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  7. benabloom

    benabloom Member

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    Hey Jeff,

    I use the comp after the COT for a couple reasons,

    1) It attenuates the high end ever so slightly which is pleasing to my ears

    2) It allows me to control how pronounced the volume boost on The Cot50 is, and switch on and off without a big volume drop.

    3) Yes it also allows me to work the volume knob on the guitar to clean up the COT.

    :AOK
     
  8. JeffE

    JeffE Member

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    Thanks for the tip! I just got my COT yesterday and ran it after the Tone Press and before my Eternity. Tonight I tried it before the compressor and I definitely think it's better that way- it rolls off the highs (my Lester is pretty bright) and allows me to work the guitar volume a bit better.

    The COT ain't no bedroom pedal, 'tho - gotta be somewhat loud to get it to shine :dude
     
  9. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    I don't know if this applies to other amps/pedals/power...but..

    It probably is a good thing to move them. I used to set up a pedalboard with input and loop effects on the same board, just had leads to go to send/return for the loop effects, plugged into fiirst input pedal, and from last input pedal to amp. This worked great...til I noticed...

    There was a lot more hum on (at the time I was using) my H20...
    It was sharing the power supply that the input pedals also used, and I think this was the problem (I suspect maybe because at the SEND the signal inverts so that may have made it worse) because when I went battery to check this it was quiet as could be. The answer though seemed to be, if I want to keep using power, to use a different powe supply for the loop pedals.

    Just a thought.
     
  10. NyteOwl

    NyteOwl Member

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    If you have a newer Shiva, you don't need the special cable, but if your Shiva was built prior to May 2006, you will need it. However, you don't need to buy it from Bogner. You can get the resistors you need from Radio Shack for a few dollars and make one yourself. I lifted these instructions from the Bogner web site.


    [​IMG]
     
  11. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    From that...it seems like it has the same problem as the Fender Prosonic (or even more...)..

    The rack level mod would halve the signal going into the rack-unit.

    The pedal would reduce it way more going into the pedal.

    The problem (unless there is some make-up gain somewhere...on the effects return or somewhere on the amp) is that the signal is greatly reduced, reducing volume, right?

    At least on my Prosonic (+10db I think it was) with a reducing cable like this, loss of volume, so one raises the volume to get more and run into the ceiling again.

    Just wondering, I don't know the particular amp or anything.
     
  12. RockStarNick

    RockStarNick Supporting Member

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    ^ The older Bogner shiva's had a built in BOOST AMP that would make up the gain.

    So you would go

    FX LOOP SEND > PEDALS > BOOST AMP > FX LOOP RETURN


    With the right cable, and making sure that the pedals in the bufered loop are TRUE BYPASS, does it sound good? Yes. Does it sound as good as the amp, dry, with nothing in the loop? Heck No. but it's a comprimise...
     
  13. Rob Eadgbe

    Rob Eadgbe Member

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    I'm sort of in the same boat here, I want to start using the Shiva's loop for pedals or possibly the Line 6 M-13. I asked my tech about having the resistors that make up the effects loop cable possibly put in a stompbox (a bit of a misnomer, as it wouldn't reqiure a stomp switch, but I digress), he seemed to think it was a pretty solid idea. Is there any downside to having a line level signal reduction box like that instead of the cable?
     
  14. jchan

    jchan Member

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    The best result would come from a rack, close to the head and switched via midi on your pedal board. Racks run at line level and good ones have level controls to optimize the signal. Running long cables to/from amp and pedalboard don't help the situation.

    Eventide makes a nice delay called the TimeFactor. It has switches to run at line level. You can connect it close to the amp and switch it with a small midi controller.
     

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