Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by imguitardan, Sep 16, 2012.
Too bad you weren't having any fun...
The camera is only picking up the stage mix (I'm pretty sure).
Bummer about the cymbal (I suggested he buy it). I'm pretty sure it sounded better there.
That sound guy is an idiot if he can't figure out how to get a miked guitar amp loud enough, I don't care how loud it is. He's probably just accustomed to loud guitar players and not having to put much guitar in the fronts. Duh.
Having said that, I like to use at least a 30 watt amp outdoors or it can sound kind of weeny. A common problem with outdoor gigs is if there is no wall behind you, and you have an open backed cab, the sound just goes away. I that situation I try to find something to put behind the amp, like an anvil case or something similar that will reflect the sound forward.
Sounded really balanced to me and you could feel the energy coming out my computer speakers...Band sounds really good!
I subscribe to the notion that it is better to have and not need than to need and not have...
In the beginning of August I did an outdoor Blues concert and brought my JTM45-like amp and due to a last minute change in plans by the promoter it ended up being a low volume...intimate terrace gig and here I am with my JTM head and two cabs...I just pointed them sideways across the stage and was able to manage volume that way but kept thinking afterwards that I should have used my low volume rig which is an At Mars Specialist with a 1X12" cab but that thing runs out of headroom fast...
Think I will carry both heads with me from now on...not that much extra to carry...
I sold my 64 Deluxe for the reasons you outlined in the OP...nowhere to go boy that was a frustrating amp...
Unless he's using a ****** PA and wanted more volume from the amp so he didn't have to turn the board up louder and distort the system. But hey, why would any sound guy know what he's doing, right?
Don't worry about it; it's not your responsibility to compensate for the soundman's errors...
It's such a totally different sonic world outdoors. I'm old school, gotta hear a good power thunk coming out of my amp behind me, not monitors. I've been in so many jams where I didn't bring enough horsepower, it wastes the whole experience. You guys sound great, keep it up!
Unless the soundman was hired to run ****** equipment. Just throwing that out there.
The mix sounded fine but I think you're right about the camera only picking up the stage mix.
FOH sound may have been completely different.
I agree with you. There is only so much you can turn up until it just sounds like a wash.
i like "loud enough" but not just stupid loud.
Cool band! I just got a Gretsch 6159 'Bass Amp' last week, great amp!
I agree these aren't headroom amps by any means. Does yours have the alnico Jensens? Which channel do you use? Is it cranked?
Funny, I consider the 6159 one of my two 'big amps'.
But the amp breaks up is so sweetly...
If I sound like ****, MOST people aren't going to think it's the soundman.
That's why I use that Standback. The only one getting "beamed" is me and I can crank my amp and fill the room (when there is a room). The amp was my monitor. I could hear myself just fine, just as soon as I moved away from the signal path, it was just gone. For the first three songs, the rest of the band had nothing! I can't believe they played as well as they did considering. Once the sound guy finally got the monitor situation figured out, you should have seen my leap! A friend said it was Townshendian. It was like I'd been electro-shocked!
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this amp. I have the channels jumped (Guitar and Bass "High" channels). It came with the stock Jensen Ceramic P12S(?) which sounded good but a bit soft. I knew I'd be cranking it so I swapped 'em out with a Celestion G12H and a Weber Alnico Silver Bell. I keep both volume knobs at about 9:00 (nearly maxed) and the tone knobs at around 8:00 (when looking from in front of the speakers -'upside down').
This amp is the answer to all my problems (people telling me to turn down - EXCEPT when I play outside apparently ). It's THICK and breaks-up just perfectly with FENDER guitars). I find my P-90 Gibsons are too middy and dark for the amp and humbuckers must be open and lower output to work. Also, I can't use all the OD's that used to kill with my larger amps (HBOD, Eternity, Rat...) because they have too much compression and mids (which the Grestch has in spades). The Timmy has filled in as a nice open boost/OD. If I want to make the sound "bigger", I step on my ARC KLONE which can add the illusion of more headroom and fullness when set to clean boost. Anyway, enjoy the Grestch. It's the amp I've always been looking for.
Here she is:
Sounded ok to me if the video is any indication of the mix. I'm not sure why a soundman wouldn't just turn you up in the mains unless he was already dimed. If that were the case I'd think his mic was either not working correctly or badly positioned.
The ride cuts through way too much in the video but as others suggested, that might just be how the camera picked it up.
Cool tune, also!
Ah,the age old problem.Soundman SUCKS!You work,and work on your tonez and nobody hears it.We've let a few Idiot's go in past.
Yours is a little cleaner than mine overall, my control panel is pitted and the lower power amp chassis has a good bit of rust, also missing logos. I think yours is a little bit younger, too. Does it run 6L6? Mine runs 7027 for outputs.
Mine is a 61, came stock with alnico P12PS speakers. Yours came with ceramic C12PS, which I have as the stock speakers in my 65 Supro Vibraverb.
My alnicos are full, middy, a little bright and a little bass light. I don't rock the amp like you do, though, so it works for me.
These amps are so full range and mid rich that they give the illusion of having 'less' low end. I imagine with those efficient brit speakers you're running that it picks up a good bit of volume and push. Still, with no walls or ceiling to grab hold of I can imagine this little guy would get a bit lost, especially with the rock power you guys bring!
Big GBV's fans?
First, off, I have to agree with others that in this recording, the guitar can be easily heard though your drummer does appear to be quite the basher. He's setting the stage volume really high and that one cymbal...oy...it sounds like the horrid open hi-hat in my computer's GM kit, LOL (at least on this recording).
Anyway, I bet that was a frustrating bummer. I've been there, where you can't hear yourself and it's really frustrating indeed!
All that being said--and I know this doesn't help much in retrospect--the problem is really the sound man. Your job, the way I see it, is to get your sound right on the stage. His job is to get it right for the audience (AND in your monitors). I understand that if you sound like crap out front (or if you're just plain not there) most of the audience won't recognize the source of the problem...but that doesn't change the source of the problem.
I've used my Supro 1688T in one of my bands. With it set at the vol levels you describe, if I still couldn't hear myself, I'd know I'm not the problem. You could bring a different amp...but I bet it wouldn't sound like that Valco. Really the solution to these kinds of problems isn't usually to bring more volume to the stage...
I wonder how much it would help having a sound-reflective wall behind the amp? Maybe if you used a piece of plexiglass shield behind the amp? I'd even consider one of those sound enhancer stands. But more importantly, you've got to get your mix and monitor mix straightened out before you begin. All this is easily done on paper; I know it's a bitch making it all happen at a gig...but bringing the Super Bass isn't really going to fix things, not IMO at any rate. Then we'd be reading the bass-player's post: "I wasn't loud enough..." instead, and he'd show up with two of Super Basses at the next gig.
(OP--this post isn't addressed so much to your particular situation as it is to other guys in somewhat similar situations.)
BTW, in my bands (both of them), the problem is that the keyboard WILL ALWAYS bet louder because he has en ego problem. (Same guy in both bands.) He's a great player and it's usually fun to play with him but it's an on-going problem. It's not that he wants us to be too loud (he actually likes it when we play relatively quietly), it's that he's terribly afraid that he's not going to be heard and he overcompensates. But I refuse to bring bigger and bigger amps and cause our stage volume to go higher and higher. I've learned that if I bring a small amp, play relatively quietly...and use a good, loud boost pedal...I can generally get over the top when needed. (This works well in the band with the quieter drummer. In my other band--with the louder drummer--the 1688T is really too loud.)
I agree I can hear in the mix fine even with the ride bashing. What I figure the sound guy wanted was more amp so he could raise the rest of the band to compensate for the ride bashing since he was really hittin it really hard, just my guess.
I also wonder if the sound man had a pad on the channel or a semi deaf mic or something, Mic in front of the speaker he (sound dude) should of had a lot of db to work with.
Who knows.. but those are the things that crossed my mind as I heard the video and read the info.