Ideas for Dim7 chords!

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Aj_rocker, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. Aj_rocker

    Aj_rocker Member

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    how do you solo over a dim7 chord?


    Aj
     
  2. gennation

    gennation Member

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  3. dewey decibel

    dewey decibel Supporting Member

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    Depends on the context. A lot of times I prefer harmonic minor over diminished, but either way I don't recommend running scales as the answer. Are you aware of the relationship between diminished chords and dominant 7th chords?
     
  4. stevel

    stevel Member

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    1. Chord Tones.

    2. Chord tones with adjacent tones from the key.

    3. As mentioned, so-called "diminished" scales, which alternate half- and whole-steps (which one works can depend on the context).

    4. Check out the Mike Dodge stuff for sure!

    5. I'll second Rob's comment - running scales isn't necessarily the answer. To answer his question for you, for example, a C#o7 in the key of Dm is often understood as a "rootless" A7b9. Thus you can think of the "scale" as:

    A Bb C# D E F G A - or as he noted, D harmonic minor. This is similar to my # 2 above.

    HTH,
    Steve
     
  5. JonR

    JonR Member

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    Classic recommendation is whole-half diminished scale (1-2-b3-4-b5-b6-bb7(6)-7). That's the dim7 arpeggio, plus an arp of another dim7 a half-step below.
    That aligns with the convention of HW dim on a 7b9 chord, of which the 3-5-b7-b9 form a dim7.

    The chord itself derives from the vii degree of harmonic minor (where the root-7th interval is a diminished 7th), so rob's suggestion makes sense. (Eg, A harmonic minor over G#dim7.)
    But that would probably only work in that key. For Bdim7 in C minor (same notes as G#dim7), A harmonic minor would be a little odd.

    Code:
     
      Dim7 chord: 1  .  . b3  .  . b5  .  . bb7 .  .  1
    WH dim scale: 1  .  2 b3  .  4 b5  . b6 bb7 .  7  1
     
       7b9 chord: 1  .  .  .  3  .  .  5  .  . b7  . (1) b9 .  
      dim7 chord:             1  .  . b3  .  . b5  .  . bb7 
    HW dim scale: 1 b2  . #2  3  . #4  5  .  6 b7  .  1  b2 .  .  .
     
    7th mode harmonic minor: 7  1  .  2 b3  .  4  .  5 b6  .  .  7  1
                  vii chord: 1  .  . b3  .  . b5  .  . bb7 .  . (1)
    
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  6. Sammo

    Sammo Member

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    I think it's cool idea to use those four triads (minor third apart) that appear in diminished scale.

    In Cdim Whole/Half they are D, F, Ab and B triads.
    In Cdim Half/Whole they are C, Eb, Gb and A triads.

    I transcribed some George Benson while ago where he used that.
     
  7. gennation

    gennation Member

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    Once you look at the symmetric scale a little deeper you'll see you also have:

    four dim7 chords (each chord is a m3rd apart)
    four dom7 chords (each chord is a m3rd apart)
    four m7 chords (each a m3rd apart)
    four m7b5 chords (each a m3rd apart)

    And we can't forget about the Major and Minor triads from those chords either:

    four Major triads (each chord is a m3rd apart)
    four Minor triads (each chord is a m3rd apart)

    Take a look at those links I posted above. The first link will show you some common applications for using the diminished sounds and exploiting a few of these things.
     
  8. Sammo

    Sammo Member

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    Sorry Mike, I should've checked your links and I honestly did not mean to steal your stuff ...

    I will check m7 and m7b5 stuff -- that was new to me. Thanks!
     
  9. gennation

    gennation Member

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    You didn't steal anything. It's public knowledge, and someone showed it to me :)

    I didn't think you went to my site, that's why I mentioned that it was out there, to add onto what you brought up.
     
  10. Sammo

    Sammo Member

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    I actually lost some sleep over m7 and m7b5 stuff -- without guitar, pen or paper it took me some time to figure out those two start on same half/whole scale root, right? So if I combine those two I will get nice pentatonic scale with root, b3, b5/#11, 5 and 7.

    Then there are four of those minor 3rd apart, so fingerings (regular minor pentatonic fingerings with little modification!) are movable. These are nice because they have different altered tones and extensions, depending on the root. In G7 they would be:

    G as root : R, b3, b5, 5, 7
    Bb as root : R, b3, 3, 5, 13
    Db as root : b9, b3, b5,13, 7
    E as root: : R, b3, 3, 5, 13

    In G7 to Cmaj7 application there seem to be some easy resolutions like E dim pentatonic to regular E minor pentatonic for nice Cmaj9 sound and Bb dim pentatonic to A minor pentatonic for C6 sound.

    I don't like pattern based approach too much, but I tried this for two minutes in the morning and they have some nice symmetry going on. And they can sound little Scofieldish, too :)

    This was all new to me. Thanks again!!
     

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