If a cockpit door can be locked from the inside then why don't pilots have keys?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by BMF Effects, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. BMF Effects

    BMF Effects Supporting Member

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    In light of the facts coming out about Germanwings 9525, how could this have happened? I understand the reasons for making sure no one can get into the cockpit but wasn't this scenario taken into consideration? I swear this is a serious question so I'm hoping someone knows.
     
  2. CyberFerret

    CyberFerret Member

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    Because ultimately, the doors are designed to be unlocked from the inside only.

    Having any form of external access introduces a weak point in the security. i.e. a terrorist could overpower the pilot coming out of the loo, grab his key and unlock the cockpit and enter.

    Our aircraft in Australia have a keypad entry system, but which apparently must be answered with an unlock command from within the cockpit. Because even with a keypad, nothing stopping someone from holding a weapon to the head steward and forcing them to enter in the pin to gain access.
     
  3. gimpyjoe

    gimpyjoe Member

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    I believe we have detected a flaw in this protocol.
    and what a tragic, tragic way to find out.
     
  4. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    From what I've read, and it is contradictory, there is a code each pilot has that will open the door, but the person inside can override so no passcode will open the door. That is one thing. Possibly they were thinking about what if someone held a gun to a pilot or threatened someone else, to make them use the code.

    That's one thing, the other, apparently there is a training video that is for that specific plane, that's says even if the person in the cockpit "lock down" so that codes don't work there is still an emergency code that cn be used that "sounds an alarm for thirty seconds, then opens the door for five seconds"

    This is what I've read anyway. It's a difficult thing to predict all occurances and possibilities. The irony is if the doors hadn't been strengthened against terror the captain probably could have gotten in, but how do you protect against in inside job?

    Personally, I've alway felt the thing that ought to be done, security personell at least two, in uniform, on every flight. It strikes me as very strange that if you go to a pub there are bouncers always, yet getting locked into a plane, in flight, and no extra security unless it happens to be an air marshall undercover. It's all about the money and tells me airlines are trying to keep security on the cheap.

    Look how many stories of drunken brawlers and crazies on flights have to be tackled by flight attendants and often by other passengers...who step in no do the job that ought to be the job of trained security personell. It seems obvious that there ought to be that, but airlines don't want to pay for that.
     
  5. BMF Effects

    BMF Effects Supporting Member

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    Totally get this, thanks for explaining.

    Agreed. I'm kind of stunned that this scenario either wasn't taken into consideration or made it up high enough on the security "to do" list.
     
  6. Lance

    Lance Member

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    No matter what you do, no matter how much you try to combat it, if someone decides they want to do something like this, they'll find a way. Imo, the problem is people suck. Always will.
     
  7. amstrtatnut

    amstrtatnut Member

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    Youre right about the first part.

    Some people suck. I know so many wonderful people and bet you do too.
     
  8. Pat Healy

    Pat Healy Member

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    This. There's downside to every security protocol. If a crazy pilot is hellbent on crashing the plane, he'll find a way to do it. He doesn't have to lock the other pilot out. He could bash him over the head or otherwise disable him in some way.

    Bad news: it's not fixable. Good news: it's almost never happens. The other thread on this subject is full of all kinds of Rube Goldberg tech solution ideas that are completely unnecessary to prevent something that happens a billionth of a percent of the time.
     
  9. mid-city tim

    mid-city tim Member

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    In the USA and some other countries, it's required that two people be in the cockpit at all times because of this scenario. Now it appears that some other countries are adopting this.

    Not saying this is the answer because a flight attendant can be over-powered and render the 2nd person useless.
     
  10. MikeVB

    MikeVB Supporting Member

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    Thinking this and 911 are going to push us towards drone passenger aircraft.

    Never have this kind of thing with bullet trains.
     
  11. tiktok

    tiktok Supporting Member

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    Eh, even two people in the cockpit--if one's decided he's going to die by design, he just waits until the other pilot goes for a leak, the stewardess sits down, they lock the door, she's not expecting to have her throat cut. Then, plane into the ground again.
     
  12. tim gueguen

    tim gueguen Member

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    I'm sure terrorists would love airliners being controlled from the ground. Instead of being able to crash three or four planes at once you could crash dozens by seizing the drone pilot centre. Just destroying the communications systems on the ground might have similar results.
     
  13. crambone

    crambone Supporting Member

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    So sad to hear about this, very tragic and cold-blooded.
     
  14. TTripp

    TTripp Member

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    Anything the pilot or co-pilot has (key, code, etc.) has that will let him open the door from the outside can be taken from him by force or threat of injury to another.
     

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