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iLoks are a hassle - are they worth it for the software developers?

78deluxe

Member
Messages
5,360
not true at all

best deterrent to piracy would be bakers building in nice viruses that format that pos persons hdd. now that would be great!

most people that pirate **** are pretty much full on thief mode. music, software, anything.

only when companies start fighting back with things like seeding viruses or destroying the user torrenting's files will it matter to those thieves.

cost of most digital albums and singles had been lowered a great deal yet piracy doubled. software from many vendors have come down in price yet piracy still remains high.

piracy abusers have this notion of "oh well i'm not taking anything i would not buy anyway"

we had a musician in another forum bragging he don't pay for anything. steals all of it. same guy months later had his gear stolen at a gig. turned into a huge cry foul baby! i lol'd at him, as did many others. karma sucks

people that steal software feel justified to do so because it is not enforced and companies don't seed nice doctored up files. if the price was $100 for pro tools the same numbers would be pirated. thieves are thieves.
I did say great deterrent, not best. From what I know, many of those sites that do offer these things illegally, typically do have a VERY high risk for virus and malware....that risk already exists and is not stopping many people.

There is no reason for a dongle. Some makers bake the user name and info into the purchased version, with no limitations on it. However, it becomes very obvious who shared it.....

It is software, some POS is going to crack it and make it for free if it costs a bunch of money. Thieves will always exist. If you claim the same number will pirate it, what is the point of making paying customers deal with that nonsense?

Your solutions and suggestions are based on emotion, not logic.
 

Astronaut FX

Member
Messages
6,929
I would agree that there are perhaps better alternatives, but honestly, I've really not found the iLok to be that burdensome.
 

78deluxe

Member
Messages
5,360
I would agree that there are perhaps better alternatives, but honestly, I've really not found the iLok to be that burdensome.
My main complaints are

1) it cost $50 to the legitimate buyer. (if the purpose is to protect the developers, the solution should be free to the buyer). Lots of great software are in that general price range! I even bought a new copy of Reason Essentials that came with a Proprietary Dongle that cost me that much for the software with a dongle. (note with Reason you can also authorize the copy to a computer, enter user name and pass over the web, OR use the Dongle), still not ideal, but it is better than ilok.

2) It takes up a USB slot. This can be a big deal for laptop users on the go. It provides no value and serves no functional purpose to the user.

3) Usually the software still needs to be installed on another computer (i.e. the dongle itself isn't providing all of the software) - thus the argument that it is easy to move from computer to computer doesn't hold any weight, as non-copy protected software would be just as easy to move around on a USB stick or hard-drive.

4) It is one more small physical device to loose or forget (and a replacement will cost you another $50.

5) Yet another account to set up and user name and password to remember.

6) Don't they also have transfer of licence fees!??!
 
Last edited:

Riscchip

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,047
I remember having to have stacks of this crap hanging off of my computer at work to use 3DS Max:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cScjZKJ3u3g/SwRkUVdnjoI/AAAAAAAAAJ4/-P-7jg3zQhw/s1600/Dongle-01.jpg

Meanwhile, anyone dishonest could simply install a cracked copy from online. I think it took hackers about 10 minutes to break the copy protection each time a new version came out.

I have no clue, but is it any different now? Do hardware locks do anything at all to prevent hackers from stealing the software? To me, they always seemed like punishment for the honest consumer and little more.
 

SolidGuitar

Member
Messages
414
I simply don't buy software that requires iLok.

Presonus Studio One, IK Multimedia, Waves, iZotope, and Toontrack's EZ Drummer are iLok free.

I wonder how many people out there are like me on this?
 

mattball826

Member
Messages
20,813
I did say great deterrent, not best. From what I know, many of those sites that do offer these things illegally, typically do have a VERY high risk for virus and malware....that risk already exists and is not stopping many people.

There is no reason for a dongle. Some makers bake the user name and info into the purchased version, with no limitations on it. However, it becomes very obvious who shared it.....

It is software, some POS is going to crack it and make it for free if it costs a bunch of money. Thieves will always exist. If you claim the same number will pirate it, what is the point of making paying customers deal with that nonsense?

Your solutions and suggestions are based on emotion, not logic.
my solution is what should have been done in the first place.

every place has thieves, i get that. compare the thieves and shrink rates of stores though to that of software piracy. i bet it's 100,000 to 1 easy.

client friend of mine made some really cool software that he and i invested tens of thousands into the making. he sold the software for $70. started to gain popularity, selling around 200 units. once it was pirated, it was over.

piracy is the reason for iloks and anti theft protections.

people that steal others works deserve to have their hdd's destroyed by viruses, company seeded software. there is little risk so piracy stays rampant. honest purchasers unfortunately are made to deal with dongles or other means of those companies protections.

iow, don't blame the company, blame those pos f'krs that pirate the sw. sadly enough, those pos a holes are many people we all know very well most of the time, at least half of musicians on music forums, video and photo forums are guilty of pirating the sw they use.

pretty sad.

logic has no bearing on piracy and simple thievery. theft is theft. would they buy it? who cares? point is.. did they? if they did not they stole it. so co's selling their sw products have to deal with this using dongles, clouds, e licensing, etc. which only affects paying customers.
 

Badside

Member
Messages
1,239
I simply don't buy software that requires iLok.

Presonus Studio One, IK Multimedia, Waves, iZotope, and Toontrack's EZ Drummer are iLok free.

I wonder how many people out there are like me on this?
I use Sonar X3 Pro, Addictive Drums 2, does everything I need iLok free, all paid for.
 

Badside

Member
Messages
1,239
client friend of mine made some really cool software that he and i invested tens of thousands into the making. he sold the software for $70. started to gain popularity, selling around 200 units. once it was pirated, it was over.
Not only does this story reeks of being made up (or altered dramatically to try and make a point) but it's filled with over simplification. You're saying that the first 70 buyers only paid for it because they couldn't pirate it, and that as soon as it was available in pirated version nobody wanted to pay for it.
That makes zero sense. The proof being that almost every piece of software out there is available in pirated form and yet there are still people paying. You're assuming that people only pay for software when there is no way to get it for free. Clearly it isn't the case because many software companies are still afloat despite their software being available easily online.

Nobody here is saying that piracy is not a problem, what we're saying is that iLok is not the solution for two simple reason: 1- it does not prevent piracy, 2- it's a nuisance to paying customers
 

stratology

Member
Messages
1,497
I simply don't buy software that requires iLok.

Presonus Studio One, IK Multimedia, Waves, iZotope, and Toontrack's EZ Drummer are iLok free.

I wonder how many people out there are like me on this?
Same here.

Add PSP and u-he to the list. Excellent products, with good, working copy protection, that does not punish users for paying for software...
 

Devnor

Member
Messages
3,635
IMO the iLok is no more a nuisance than online authorizations. Depending on a person's unique situation, the case can be made either way. I certainly do not feel I'm being "punished" by the developers. I collaborate with another musician that has a similar system but doesn't have the investment in plugins that I have. My plugins are already installed on his machine. When I work with that system, I simply plug in my iLok (it coexists nicely with his) and we can go to work. With an online authorization scheme, I would not have that flexibility.

Managing the iLok is as simple as dragging & dropping your licenses to the new key. Their license manager works perfectly under OSX 10.10.3. I was able to move everything over before the updated versions of my plugins finished downloading. I have ZDT so if anything happens, I'm covered. I consider it insurance for my software for less than a cup of coffee each month.

The good news is you have a choice and all you need to do is understand the license requirements before you purchase.
 
Messages
346
I'm curious about the OP's questions as well. Why would any reasonable developer choose iLok as a copy protection scheme??

When releasing a software product, thinking about pirates rather than thinking about paying customers is the wrong approach, IMHO.

I'm one of those paying customers, I had an iLok protected product once, never again.
The Pace/iLok software is crap (on OS X, iLok uses a crappy proprietary kext rather than OS X's default USB driver), that is famous for its issues. iLok/Pace has arguably the worst support in the industry.

So why would a developer with a great product compromise it with a crappy copy protection scheme??
I am a developer and I wouldn't. It's probably not the developer's decision though....some other part of the company bureaucracy usually mandatrs that stuff and who knows why or how they came to their decision. Probably the usual lowest common denominator crap that comes out of sitting in corporate meetings.
I'm curious about the OP's questions as well. Why would any reasonable developer choose iLok as a copy protection scheme??

When releasing a software product, thinking about pirates rather than thinking about paying customers is the wrong approach, IMHO.

I'm one of those paying customers, I had an iLok protected product once, never again.
The Pace/iLok software is crap (on OS X, iLok uses a crappy proprietary kext rather than OS X's default USB driver), that is famous for its issues. iLok/Pace has arguably the worst support in the industry.

So why would a developer with a great product compromise it with a crappy copy protection scheme??
 

Modulator

Member
Messages
2,741
I don't mind ilok (and ilok2) at all. After decades of using Microguard, Sentinel, etc. dongles and dealing with FlexLM and other license servers, ilok is a piece of cake. Like me, Riscchip knows what a "real" dongle is, an ilok is nothing when you've had a stack of 4 or more serial port or ADB port dongles.

Be glad that music software doesn't use license servers, makes ilok look simple as anything. And for many Pace protected software, you don't need an ilok2 and the software will license to the computer. So the $50 debate is moot for many pieces of software. Losing your licenses, also moot if you opt for the ZDT protection.

Lots of false assumptions in this thread. Ilok is nowhere near as bad as the non-users make it out to be and it gives me access to some very cool software that you couldn't use if you vowed to never use ilok.
 

stratology

Member
Messages
1,497
Lots of false assumptions in this thread. Ilok is nowhere near as bad as the non-users make it out to be and it gives me access to some very cool software that you couldn't use if you vowed to never use ilok.
Try a Google search: iLok site:gearslutz.com


Most of the criticism comes from users and former users.

Also: iLok does not live in a vacuum. It has to compete with more modern, hassle free copy protection schemes, like the ones used by Apple, u-he, PSP, and many others.

Hardware copy protection may have been a valid way to do things in 1995, today it's just a legacy technology that is best known for its issues.
 

Modulator

Member
Messages
2,741
Try a Google search: iLok site:gearslutz.com


Most of the criticism comes from users and former users.

Also: iLok does not live in a vacuum. It has to compete with more modern, hassle free copy protection schemes, like the ones used by Apple, u-he, PSP, and many others.

Hardware copy protection may have been a valid way to do things in 1995, today it's just a legacy technology that is best known for its issues.
And why would people post when things are going fine with no issues? Most people complain when things are not going right. Gearslutz is the furthest thing from a wide sample of all ilok users just as TGP doesn't represent all guitar players.

I hadn't realized that poeple have gotten so ethical that nobody pirates anything today unlike the primative 90's.
 

stratology

Member
Messages
1,497
I hadn't realized that poeple have gotten so ethical that nobody pirates anything today unlike the primative 90's.
If you work professionally and use iLok protected software, it's actually a good idea to carry pirated copies of the same software, so you don't have any major financial losses during downtime...
 

ncyankee

Member
Messages
610
I have an ilok that came with my copy of protools 10. Just last night I wanted to try the h3000 plugin and went to the eventide site, entered my ilok username, opened the app on my Mac, and I had a 30 day authorization.

I don't get that hate for the system, I think it works well.

By the way, not buying the h3000 even for $150 off. Not a fan at all.
 




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