I'm In Love (with a delay pedal- DMM content)!!!

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by markom89, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. Don't Post

    Don't Post Member

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    was news to me they are doing that.the whole reason for the 4 spaces is to use the MN3008.sure would be easier if you've that pedal.i doubt there will be many people that have the 2XMN3005 X 2X00000's anyways.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  2. kldonegan

    kldonegan Member

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    My DMM, along with many of the current production models, shipped with two MN3005 chips but the circuit board is ready for 4 chips. EH had been using 4 MN3008 chips, but seem to be using the 2 MN3005 configuration again. Mine, and the one being discussed in this thread, already has slots for two more chips because of the circuit board layout. I think that's where the confusion is coming from.

    Older DMMs had two slots for the MN3005 chips. EH switched to four slots for the MN3008 chips, but have since loaded the four-slotted circuit boards with 2 MN3005 chips. By adding two chips and moving a jumper you can double the delay time.
     
  3. Don't Post

    Don't Post Member

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    over it!i know what i mean.
     
  4. kldonegan

    kldonegan Member

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    We were both getting at the same thing :)
     
  5. analogmike

    analogmike Gold Supporting Member Vendor

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    If you think our mods strip all the magic, just adjust the trimpots to the stock settings per the instruction sheet. Then you can hear the stock dull sound and overloading, if that's what you like :)
     
  6. markom89

    markom89 Senior Member

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  7. Blue Bee

    Blue Bee Member

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    like the clip, great dmm use. the fuzz scared the s#!t outta me when it came on.
     
  8. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    Sorry Mike. No offense intended. I just didn't like that the modded one wouldn't get the infinite repeat thing going and the modulation just didn't sound the same as my vintage one, but that obviously has nothing to do with the mod.

    I love your pedals! My late 70's DMM just does it for me.
     
  9. markom89

    markom89 Senior Member

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    I've had the DMM for over a month now (on loan) and am loving it more and more as each day passes. My buddy's taking it back today, I think, and I can't seem to find any 5-knob '79 DMM's up for sale :( Best delay EVAR!!!
     
  10. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    i has one. not for saaaaale.
     
  11. markom89

    markom89 Senior Member

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    every man has his price. :Devil
     
  12. myTakamine

    myTakamine Member

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    yes and yes
     
  13. flickerbot

    flickerbot Member

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    I like the internal transformer DMMs as opposed to the outboard transformer/ true bypass models. Had both- did extensive ABing and the older model won hands down. Marko- maybe get your hands on the RI with the internal transformer? Best of luck with your search!
     
  14. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    :worried
     
  15. markom89

    markom89 Senior Member

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    Hmmm... tell me more about this internal/external transformer thing. I haven't heard of it/don't know what it is. Tonight the DMM went home and I miss it like crazy. I'm looking for a 5-knob 79'er as previously mentioned. That's THE DMM sound, IMO. I need to get the exact sound of the one that I had here...
     
  16. VHS analog

    VHS analog Member

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    I just saw the Youtube video of Blondgraemy's comparison of a DMM reissue and a vintage DMM. The vintage was noticeably smoother and more life-like with LONGER delay time. Clear and bell-like with no harshness. I'm not a vintage snob, just calling it as I see it. If there is a reissue mod to get THAT sound, I'll be calling Analog Mike very soon.
     
  17. Franktone

    Franktone Member

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    The problem as detailed here in a link are the cheaper op amps that they have been using in the unit lately. Making it more difficult to deal with is the fact that these cheaper op amp boards have there op amps directly soldered to the board, so they must be desoldered and replaced with higher quality, yet relatively cheap, op amps. http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/mmmod.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  18. Franktone

    Franktone Member

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    These cheaper op amps were introduced at the same time as the newer bbd chips and the true bypass with wall wart were introduced. It's not a bad unit, but you can easily do a lot better. I recently acquired a 6-8 yr old 3-prong corded model and it sounds incredible. I tried the recent model at Moog Music and it just didn't have it, but this 3-pronger does. The 3-pronger models can be bought relatively cheaply and have a haunting sound. To be honest, I've never tried out the older 2-prong corded model. But I do have an older wall wart (import) model that must be at least 15 yrs old, and both units sound almost identical. If I had to pick between both units based on sound, I would pick the 3-prong model as my keeper.
     
  19. Franktone

    Franktone Member

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    Here is a great post from guiltyspark on another site that starts with commentary by Analog Mike:

    The Japanese Panasonic MN30XX chips are the best ever made, a little better than the more recent (but also discontinued) Japanese MN32XX chips in the DM3, AD9 etc. and much better than the BL32XX Chinese chips. These MN chips are all discontinued, only the BL Chinese chips are still made. Don't know how much longer EH will be able to make the memory man with the good old Japanese chips
    3X05 = about 4000 delay stages, 3X08 = 2000 stages, 3X07 = 1000 stages.
    In about early 2006 the DMM changed to relay true bypass switching, and four MN3008 chips instead of two MN3005 chips. The new DMM has (4 * 2000 = 8000 stages), The older one had (2 * 4000 = same 8000 stages) for the same delay time.
    4000 stages is good for about 300mS at reasonable quality (AD9 etc) or 200mS at high quality (DMM).
    1000 stages is more than enough for a chorus (we use new old stock MN3007 chips in our chorus). There were also 512 stage chips used fo chorus and flangers (best for a flanger).
    To check if it the new version with the relay, turn it on and play, so you are hearing the delays (effect on). Then unplug the power from the back of the DMM. If it turns off and you hear your normal guitar sound, then it has a relay. If you hear nothing then you don't have the relay. You can also tell as the stomp switch only has two wires on it if you have the relay.
    I guess they ran out of the MN3005 chips. Theoretically, the less delay chips you have, each with higher number of memory positions to add up to the same amount of memory, the better the sound. But in reality there is little sound difference between two 3005 chips and four 3008 chips. But there are twice as many calibration points to dial in if you have 4 chips. Some delays have EIGHT CHIPS (ad999?) that must be a nightmare to calibrate...
    We can install four MN3005 chips on the newer model Deluxe Memory Man to double the delay time to about 800mS. But it's a VERY expensive mod as the chips are about $100 and about the same for our labor in calibration. And after this mod the pedal can no longer be used as just a chorus as the short delay times are now too long for a normal sounding chorus pedal.
    Memory Man op-amp IC chip upgrades
    There are a few web sites and posts about improving the sound of an EH deluxe memory man, by replacing the normal 4558 op amps with some high tech chips. The noise and tone in a memory man comes from the BBD chips, not the op amps. The BBD chips have about 10,000 times more noise, and very low fidelity. That is normal in an analog delay and nothing can be done about that, it's why people love their sounds. So replacing the op amps will have little benefit, or so I thought.
    After writing the above I got some new DMM pedals, they are now using ST electronics MC4558CN dual op amp chips. I replaced all five of these chips while I was in there (those knobs are a pain to remove) with new Texas Instruments TL072 chips.
    Dry sound when playing clean - it is improved. Put the mix to pure DRY (no echo) and the tone when playing clean is a little purer. I was surprised.
    ECHO SOUND: also clearer when you listen to 100% delayed sound, much clearer and closer to a digital delay sort of tone. Seems to be more difference at lower delay times.
    When I turn up the MIX for about 50% delay I tested for noise by playing a low string gently. The modified pedal is a bit noisier, may be a unit to unit discrepancy or could be the TL072 chips allow more high end through which contains the noise.
    OVERDRIVEN sound : running a good OD pedal into the DMMs, with the gain knob set for unity gain (LED just glowing) the sound of the stock one seems a little warmer to me, both dry and echo sounds. But the modified one is clearer again.
    DISTORTION : Running a good distortion pedal into the units, the modified one is clearer, the repeats are almost too clear. The stock one has repeats which are darker and more in the background. At this point in the test I brought out a '59 reissue Les Paul with burstbuckers 1 and 2 and played through the Maxon SD9/808/silver, into the DMM into a '66 blackface Deluxe Reverb plugged into a '73 Marshall 4x12 cabinet and just played for 45 minutes as it was a MAGIC combination! Gilmour, Hackett, Page sounds were flowing... best tones I ever got for leads.
    Anyway, the difference with changing the op amps is more than I thought it would be. But not sure whether I like it enough to go through the hassle of pulling the board out... depends on what you want, clarity or a warm background echo. Most people will prefer the upgraded op amps I think. Also the new 2006 pedals do not use sockets so the chips need to be desoldered, a lot more work. These are the EC2002_REV_E boards which use four MN3008 chips and a relay to switch the pedal on and off. You can test for this one by turning it on, playing, then unplug the power jack. If it turns off (you get normal OFF sound) then it has a relay and is the new version.
     

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