I'm officially confused. Speaker related..I think

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by MONSTER ZERO, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. MONSTER ZERO

    MONSTER ZERO Member

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    So I picked up a pair of older Carvin 1562 towers as backup solutions and decided to give them a field test last night at a gig.

    Typically I run two PR15's for tops and two Yamaha SW118's for subs. The subs are powered by a GX7 and the tops a GX5. My x-over is a bbe xmax and I use the built in sonic maximizer set for a slight past noon processing. My mixer is a QSC TM16

    The Carvins are 2x15 with a horn and are bi-ampable. I used the amps and x-over as I would have with separate tops and subs.

    The confusion is our FOH has never sounded better! I mean it didn't sound like crap or anything before but last night in a room we play a lot our FOH was outstanding. The bass was punchy and deep and the mids and highs were crystal clear. The overall mix seemed to be much easier to achieve great balance. Wish I had some audio worth proving it but I dont.

    I'm not a sound engineer so I am going to stay with the Carvins and leave the tops and subs as the backups, but it still leaves me scratching my head as to why it sounds so much better. I was always told by sound engineer friends that separate tops and subs will always sound better than an all in one solution.

    DOH!
     
  2. MONSTER ZERO

    MONSTER ZERO Member

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    Oh wanted to add we got excellent feedback from the bar owner and regular patrons and fans of how we sounded so much better than usual. The bar owner thought it was the new drummer..
     
  3. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    They're both low end speakers, but if you're asking for an explanation, the Carvins are 5dB more efficient and they're 4 ohms vs 8. Your amp is rated 300 watts into 8 ohm and 425 into 4. To get good levels from a 300 watt amp into 97dB speakers the amp's going to be running pretty much flat out. 425 watts into 102 dB speakers is going to give you a lot more clean headroom, and that's probably what you heard.
     
  4. MONSTER ZERO

    MONSTER ZERO Member

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    Ok so more headroom is most likely the cause of the better sound. Good to know. I wish I had more time to research this stuff before I just go buy things.

    I was looking into going all powered with all QSC stuff but I was pretty happy with the sound we got last night.
     
  5. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    If you sound better without subs, something is wrong. Either wrong with your subs or wrong with how you are using them.
     
  6. texasdave

    texasdave Member

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    …and you've gone from a plastic enclosure to a wood cab.

    The PR15s are fine for what they are; extremely light weight 15" speaker holder. I bought used system w/ a pr of those and a Peavey XR8600D (dual amp) head, mainly to have something to loan or rent when people hit me up for such a thing. I blew a HF driver and upgraded both to the RX22s so they could take what gets thrown at 'em. They're stupid light and you're not worried about something happening to them, but put the same components in a wood box and they're going to sound better.
     
  7. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    Not necessarily in this case. Those older Carvins aren't that bad, and going by the relative inefficiency of the Peavey tops and the relatively low power of his amp, I'm thinking he's probably pushing both amp and speakers close to the edge and likely had quite a bit of distortion going on. The extra headroom probably cleaned things up significantly. I'm a big proponent of subs and adding them to the Carvins should sound even better, but I can see why he got a better sound the way he did. PA gear being pushed really hard doesn't usually sound very good.
     
  8. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    I didn't say it didn't sound better. I said if it sounded better without subs, something is wrong with his subs or the way he is using them. If his subs are junk, there is something wrong with the subs, right?
     
  9. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    I was saying he was probably pushing his tops too hard. The more efficient, lower impedance speakers would have given cleaner vocals. He lost some low end but gained clarity, which was a net positive. Add the subs to the Carvins and it will sound even better
     
  10. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    Yep.


    I was only addressing the lack of subs and certainly wasn't saying the PR15s were worth anything. Decent drum monitors because that tard is half deaf anyway. lol
     
  11. modulusman

    modulusman Member

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    Almost anything would sound better than those Peavey tops.
     
  12. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    I had a pair. Used them as tops once. Then they were relegated to drum monitors. Eventually I just gave them to my drummer. Now he's on IEMS anyway. Took a $400 bath on that one. lol
     
  13. bob-i

    bob-i Member

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    In many situations, a decent full range cab can sound better than tops and subs, especially if something is done incorrectly with the tops/subs. Incorrect crossover frequencies, under powering, mismatched cabs, phasing issues, all make a top/sub configuration more difficult to mix.

    I don't know why you wouldn't go with the better sounding setup regardless of what you bought it for. Use what sounds best. JMO
     
  14. modulusman

    modulusman Member

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    If I'm reading the OP right he is bi amping just the carvins. Does any one know if the 215 speakers are separate from the horn or if the crossover point is lower and the bottom 15 is suppose to be low frequencies. If the crossover is between the horn and the 15s then I would be concerned about the fact that he is using a 500 watt amp for horns that probably only need 50 watts at best. MONSTER ZERO what was the crossover point set at?
     
  15. MONSTER ZERO

    MONSTER ZERO Member

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    It was set right around 120.
     
  16. modulusman

    modulusman Member

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    Do you know if that is what is recommended for the speaker cab? It might say on panel where the speaker cables plug in.
     
  17. MONSTER ZERO

    MONSTER ZERO Member

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    No but the manual says the following

    Frequency response: 54hz to 19khz +3db
    useable low freq: 44hz (-10db)
    power handling: 600w
    recommended amp: up to 900 watt
    sensitivity: 102db spl 1w @ 1m
    biampable: yes
     
  18. modulusman

    modulusman Member

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    I saw the spec sheet online but could find nothing about the bi-amped operation for those cabs. My concern would be that you have the crossover set to low. If the crossover is suppose to be between the horn and the woofers it would be at way higher frequency than 120. You will damage the horns if that is the case if you haven't already done so. Maybe you can find out the proper setting at the carvin forums or by contacting them.
     
  19. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    I agree with this. I highly doubt ( and in fact I'm sure ) that the high freq. driver will not be able to handle the freq. as low as 120 hz. Perhaps as low as 1000-1200 hz, but not much lower. And I would bet my bottom dollar that the internal passive crossover in this model is probably set around 1500 hz. For optimum performance, I would even consider tri-amping these speakers. That would require doing some extra wiring, and determining the ohm rating of the individual drivers. At any rate, contacting Carvin re: how to properly bi-amp or tri-amp these speakers is the right way to go.
     
  20. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    I wouldn't bother biamping or triamping them. I'd just add the subs back in and be done with it.

    We're missing something here. As you are saying, there's no way those would sound good biamped and crossed at 120hz. That can't be how they were set up.
     

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