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I'm still waiting for top-quality modeling in a unit the size of an iPhone.

Axeplyr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
2,094
The technology is there. Look at what an iPhone can do.

Gotta be at least the sound quality of an Eleven Rack.

C'mon makers - get moving!!! :waiting
 

3dognate

Member
Messages
6,066
iPod Touch / iPhone + Apogee Jam +Peavey Ampkit = What you are after pretty darned close. (The Jam is such a better input device than the headphone jack it aint even funny.)

Any particular reason it needs to not be an iOS device?
 

Will Chen

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,720
Your asking a multitasking device with a less powerful processor than a nice desktop to perform next to real time audio processing at the same quality and low latency as a dedicated device? Don't hold your breath...
 

guitarnet70

Member
Messages
4,311
Dream On Dream On Dream On
Dream until your dream comes true
Dream On Dream On Dream On
Dream until your dream comes through
 

Axeplyr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
2,094
Hahaha. Thanks for the replies.

Sounds like the first solution is worth looking into. I'm really looking for the mobile sound quality, not the full-up capabilities of the big dogs. I would just love to plug my guitar into a small portable device and have it sound as great as my 11r. Maybe 10 models, 10 cabs, 10 effects. Sound equally good thru headphones as external speakers.

I'm heading on a short business assignment. Can't bring my 11r, have an iPhone, and I'm a tone snob. I'm in a pickle! :)

Doesn't have to be an iPhone. Makers can design a dedicated device with a similar footprint. Remember the Zoom 9002? Make one today with up to date tech!
 

Jack Gilvey

Member
Messages
4,060
There's no doubt that the DSP power will eventually be there, likely sooner rather than later. Is there? The thing is, do I want all my gear to be as small as possible? Ergonomically I like the size of the HD500...button spacing, etc. And obviously the chip that does the work in the 500 is tiny...can probably fit in an iPhone size unit if need be. But would it be usable? Even the small Pod HD is only as big as it is to accommodate a reasonably-sized display as well as various inputs/outputs, knobs, etc. So it can be small, if that were the only concern.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,502
Hahaha. Thanks for the replies.

Sounds like the first solution is worth looking into. I'm really looking for the mobile sound quality, not the full-up capabilities of the big dogs. I would just love to plug my guitar into a small portable device and have it sound as great as my 11r. Maybe 10 models, 10 cabs, 10 effects. Sound equally good thru headphones as external speakers.

I'm heading on a short business assignment. Can't bring my 11r, have an iPhone, and I'm a tone snob. I'm in a pickle! :)

Doesn't have to be an iPhone. Makers can design a dedicated device with a similar footprint. Remember the Zoom 9002? Make one today with up to date tech!
Try a Zoom G3... seriously, it's quite small, has a LOT of good FX, has headphone usage, good I/O, can be connected to your computer via USB for editing and recording, and can run on 4 AA batteries for 6 hours continuous. I can fit one in my soft gigbag outside pocket that I use with my strat.
On another hand, I have Ampkit + installed on my daughter's IPOD Touch (and my IPAD) for ~$10? The only issue is connectivity quality and I believe that is now much better with many more options like the Apogee product (and others). It sounds pretty darn good, but I think much better connectivity (maybe the Apogee is it) takes it to a new level. I used to plug mine into a QSC K10 and it was great fun. BTW, I never had latency problems -- not sure what others are talking about in that realm.
But the G3 is a pretty serious modeling option (and you could also integrate it with your / in front of your 11R) and goes for what, $180 new???
 

Scrutinizer

Member
Messages
1,323
That sounds like a great way to burn through a ton of R&D money. Hey, let's design a box the size of an iPhone, with the processing power of an iPhone, with a touch screen like an iPhone, with audio input and output capabilities at least as good as the iPhone, then design amp and effects modeling software to run on this iPhone-like box.

And once this is designed, tested, and in production, our tiny hardware box can compete in the marketplace with $10 apps for the iPhone that basically do the same thing.

Not a good business plan, IMHO.
 

MKB

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,453
Two things here: 1) are the components available that are tiny enough to do the job, and 2) the user interface. If you want a standalone unit, you can see pics of the inside of these units, and if you can see the PCB's, get an idea of how small the components are. Most of these units are based around a specific DSP platform. The point is to cram all of that DSP based stuff in a smaller box. I find it hard to think that the DSP manufacturers make their chips in a small enough form to fit in a tiny enclosure, because where would they use them?

Of course you can get raw die and go in that direction, but then you run into manufacturing cost issues. Probably the best chance at getting something really small is in the iPhone based devices.

The UI probably could not be successfully implemented in a box that small, but if you could link it to an external iPad, you could do a very nice UI.

Another way to look at all this is the modeler is like a cell phone; the size is somewhat limited by the human body and how big the foot/hand is, and what size display can be easily read with the necessary information. The rack units, usually 2U high, are made that way to accommodate the desired button/knob spacing and display.

Maybe what you want is a Pocket Pod with HD modeling?
 

Rena Rune

Senior Member
Messages
3,218
The Korg Pandora is around the size of an iPhone. The latest one is a bit ****, but the next version, whenever they come out with it, might be pretty good.
 

harm.on.x

Member
Messages
128
...But the G3 is a pretty serious modeling option (and you could also integrate it with your / in front of your 11R) and goes for what, $180 new???
I've read some of your posts about the G3 and you seem to really like it.
Your modelers comparison mp3 at another thread were really impressive too.
Very good playing and ability to dial in all different units.
I also own a G3 and I get very good tones out of it. I don't even remember the last time I was so excited about a pedal. It has honestly surpassed all my expectations. It has its shortcomings but mainly because of the size factor. The sound is there. So for me, anything smaller than a G3 would introduce way too many limitations to be usable live. At the end i would have to use additional DI boxes, footswitches, etc so I'd rather just have it all in one unit.
I realize that you also own an Axe Fx.
Would you say that at this point the difference between a rack unit like the Axe Fx and a compact unit like the G3 is more the amount of tweaking one can do than the actual sound quality?
 

Axeplyr

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
2,094
The local Guitar Center has the Line6 Mobile In. I've decided I'm going to snag one and give it a whirl. I'm thinking it won't be at the level of an 11R, but might be enough given the format.
 

CyberFerret

Member
Messages
10,036
Have you actually tried Amplitube, AmpKit, JamUp, Shredder, Garageband etc.?

End of the day though, you are talking about a device that is optimised for touch screens, graphical animations, bluetooth/GSM/3G/4G/WiFi comms etc. Audio processing and MIDI capabilities fall WAY down on the list.

The OS is also written around communications and screen animations/user interactions... Audio stuff is pretty much an afterthought that was shoehorned in there. Audio programmers have to run through hoops to get things to work in a nice, timely manner with everything else.

I don't know whether we will see purpose built audio processing units of this size, ever. For a start, when you are talking about the serious processing power that low latency audio calculations will take, you immediately have a heat problem with the CPU that this sort of small form factor is just not equipped to handle...
 

shasha

Member
Messages
1,207
Its kind of nice to get on the internet and read something intelligent.

To try to add something here (since just about everything I'd say has been covered), isn't it a shame that 'we' as musicians can see what's possible but there just isn't a big enough market for the manufacturers to take DSP power to the next level? I mean CPU's and GPU's and all kinds of other PU's are on this meteoric rise yet the most powerful DSP's haven't seen a major retool in years. If anything they are scaling them back in order to cut costs.
 

aleclee

TGP Tech Wrangler
Staff member
Messages
13,247
Follow the money. They sell tens of millions of iGizmos every year. I'd bet that 10,000 units of a modeling device would be considered successful by most manufacturers. If you were running a semiconductor manufacturer, which type of processor would you put your R&D into?
 

fumbler

Member
Messages
1,471
Here's one from 1982:



But seriously folks, you'd need a high quality A/D converter, fast processor and a big enough touchscreen for the GUI. A specialty audio co-processor would be a big help, too. But that's it.

All of these things exist but it'd be a tiny market for such a device and it would be incredibly expensive to develop.

It would be much better to just design a good outboard audio interface which plugs into the port of a good smartphone. The processors in today's best phones could do a decent job of DSP if they have a hi-quality digital signal to work with.
 

MaxTwang

Senior Member
Messages
3,726
iPhone's and similar devices won't be taken seriously for modeling until they have a 2 space rack mount kit.
 




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