In your opinion, Suhr vs Fender Strats?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by NickoO, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. VaughnC

    VaughnC Supporting Member

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    Interesting discussion!

    There are lots of guitar options these days, but don't believe in what "we" say...believe in what your own hands & ears tell you about any guitar. And, if your eyes like it too, it's like the icing on the cake. But buy the cake!

    My current favorite "strat" isn't the prettiest guitfiddle I've ever seen...but every time I play it my hands & ears again remind me what's so special about it. It "fits"! Like when buying a new pair of shoes, only I know how they fit!

    Vintage vibe is important to some, modern vibe is important to others...depends on where you best fit in the scheme of things.

    Run the racks, forget the labels, close your eyes, and judge each individual guitar on it's own merits! Your eyes know nothing about tone & feel...!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  2. RayBarbeeMusic

    RayBarbeeMusic Member

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    I see people all the time here do the equivalent of arguing physics with physicists, when they themselves are not physicists. But they really feel strongly about things which they know little about and have no real sample or experience from which to draw conclusions.

    Which of Fenders noise cancelling techniques were you referring to? Aluminum pickguard? Shielding tape? Shielding paint? What exactly? Rwrp only cancels noise in 2 out of 5 positions; was that what you were comparing to a nearly noiseless instrument in every position? If so... ....really?????

    How about their God awful attempt at a noiseless pickup? But that's a recent development.

    None of those things remotely compares to a ssc2 system. Not even kinda. Much less as effective.

    The absolute ridiculousness of your claim, on its face, sparked jaw dropping incredulity on my part. My advice is do some research and get some experience with these things before posting.
     
  3. eigentone

    eigentone Supporting Member

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    I welcomed you to share your understanding and explain why you believe what I wrote is incorrect. That wasn't your full explanation, was it? Yes, I was writing about RWRP. I stated that on page 5; 4 posts before your first response to me.

    This seems to be the part you are focusing on:

    And I wrote that in the context of SSCII -- a noise/hum cancelling system which is used as a passive or active hum-cancellation system found in several (but not all) of Suhr's single coil equipped guitars (eg S/T/JM.) I don't see a SSCII option for Suhr's basses; they appear to use a split single under a Jazz cover (one coil per two strings per pickup) and a vintage style Jazz pickup, which I presume is RWRP. To be totally clear: I did not write the above quote with only Strats in mind.

    Let's resolve this quickly and decisively. Demonstrate your understanding of the subject and my claim by answering the following questions:
    1. Was Fender using RWRP to cancel hum and noise in the 1950s? If Yes, specify a model or two that featured RWRP pickups in the 1950s. If Fender introduced it later, specify the model and the year they released guitars or basses where RWRP was first used by Fender in production. To be clear: This doesn't have to be a Strat. And it doesn't have to be every possible position/state. Just let me know when Fender was selling guitars or basses which had RWRP pickup sets.
    2. Does SSCII cancel (literally) all the hum/noise (when the SSCII coil is in the circuit) or is there some residual hum/noise? If the amount of residual hum/noise is tiny, then answer "There is some residual hum/noise."
    3. Do RWRP pickups cancel (literally) all the hum/noise (when a standard pickup and a RWRP pickup are used in parallel) or is there some residual hum/noise? If the amount of residual hum/noise is tiny, then answer "There is some residual hum/noise."
    4. Is it possible for an SSCII-equipped SSS Suhr S (with SSCII-cancellation enabled) to exhibit more hum/noise than a SSS Fender Strat with a RWRP set when in Neck+Middle position? Assume these two guitars are new on the sales floor, that they are fully functional, same position/orientation, same interference. And this is where you share and demonstrate your higher understanding on the subject: Explain your answer and provide references.
    If you answer Yes to 1 and 4, you are (at least mostly) in agreement with what I wrote in my self-quote above.
     
  4. mattmccloskey

    mattmccloskey Supporting Member

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    The SSC2 does not leave any residual noise.
     
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  5. Husky

    Husky Gold Supporting Member

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    You are talking apples to oranges. What guitar did Fender use RWRP in the 50's for single coils? The Jazzmaster in 58' both coils wound the same direction not a Reverse Wind, one was wired backwards. RWRP is not a system it's a method, you can actually do both although costly and futile.

    You seem to be arguing semantics, You said Fender had this all down, well then why are they still trying to make noiseless solutions. We are talking about making a "single" single coil quiet without changing its response or tone. Technically the P Bass was not actually RW but also wired backwards.

    Humbucking coils were invented by the telephone company but the goal here is to make a guitar where all the positions have the same noise experience since most people don't like dealing with one noisy position, especially 3.

    RWRP is not a solution to make 3 of the positions quiet rendering it basically useless unless you are Mark Knopfler. I've played my share of clubs on the bridge, middle because the room was too noisy, not ideal.

    I can do side by side in a bass because people don't bend bass strings much, there is a center dead zone.

    Bottom line is IMO your statement is misleading and using RWRP for two pickups bears no resemblance to function of the SSCII and certainly not better, they didn't invent the tech. There are also plenty of people out there who feel that RWRP changes things, even people at Fender. Maybe having to do with magnetic pull not all in the same direction. One nice thing about the SSCII is they are all the same wind direction and magnetism, once less thing to worry about.

    As for noise, nothing is perfect, a standard humbucker still makes noise, two humbucking coils in parallel are more quiet than any series humbucker but we generate more noise from our effect and pedals. Bottom line is you need to match the results in all positions of what one thing does to another or its moot. Hey could you play this line on that neck pickup? Good god what's all that noise? geee I'm sorry Mr Lange, I'm going to have to use Neck/middle instead then. ;-)

    Noise is induced, play in the desert with a battery powered amp, no hum.

     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  6. T92780

    T92780 Silver Supporting Member

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    I've never heard of a player going through a new Fender guitar w/jumbo frets in less than 1-year.
     
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  7. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Suhr is definitely above most factory Fenders, except for the EJs and AO which are truly great guitars too. Personally I think Fender CSs are a bit better quality, but it comes down to the individual guitar. Also for me, Fender makes the absolute best shaped necks of anyone. An EJ neck, a 54 U, the AOs, the 51 Nocasters, 57v, 56v....damn they just know neck shapes!!!! That being said, for a more modern take, a Suhr or Tyler are phenominal.
    Play all of them and decide. All great guitars!!
    Just make sure you get a flat sawn!!
    :banana
     
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  8. RicardoDiazHimself

    RicardoDiazHimself Member

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    Steve Morse and EVH do so in 2 months. But nice meeting ya! I do wear thru nickel Jumbo's in less than a year.

    Anyway: love my stainless steel frets :)
     
  9. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    If you want to have a Fender play as nice as a Suhr, your going to have someone that can do setups as well as Suhr can do.

    I send all my guitars to Joe Glaser for Plek jobs, and Glaser says Suhr has as good of a set up as money can buy.
    An off the rack especially. No way they/Fender can do mass set ups for guitars like Suhr can. And if they did, you would need to add $500-$600 to the cost, because they would be losing a lot of time, and output.

    Im not sure, but I also believe Suhr uses a Plek, or did, and consider hes as good as it gets for setups by hand, the Plek makes him a sheer ****ing genius, and consistent from guitar, to guitar.
    If Glaser says Suhr is as good as it gets, I believe him.

    I use the Ilitch Noise Rediction System on my Partscaster for 10 years now. Mines the backplate, and there's no way Ive ever heard a RWMP be as quiet. Not in the same universe.
     
  10. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Supporting Member

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    Eh.


    Take just a lowly MIM "reissue" or road worn strat. Shim the neck a hair, set the action kinda flat & high so the high E string is pretty high off the board. Get some good reissue strat pickups, a reissue bridge & maybe some nice pots. That sound/feel is just right there. So much of it is not the booteeknesssesesese of it, it's the plain geometry of how the instrument is built. The smaller frets, the curvy 7 1/4 radius, the spank of the steel saddles, the oblong wrongly space pole pieces, it all adds up to that old strat character. Some people can't adapt to that set up, that's not the guitar's shortcoming.


    If I'm gonna get a Suhr IDGAF about the trying to turn Milk into Orange Juice by flattening the neck radius and stainless saddles and all the crap while having vintagey pickups with a noiseless system, lame. My favorite Suhr guitars are just the all out flamey ass shred monstrosities. No in between for me.


    Either get the guitar you want to noodle with or get the guitar with the original geometry for it's old school character. Everything you change changes the instrument in your hands. This whole "It almost sounds like a '58 strat with modern appointments" is so Yacht rock coddle me forever daddy cheesy consumer crud.
     
  11. T92780

    T92780 Silver Supporting Member

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    Well, you're in good company :)
     
  12. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    When I have my 7.25 radius guitars Plek'd x Glaser, I have him do a Compound Fret Radius.
    10.9 on the first fret, and 12.9 12th, and 16 on the last.

    I also have Glaser give relief to the Bass Side to compensate for ham fistedness.
     
  13. eigentone

    eigentone Supporting Member

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    Alright. One week has passed. It appears that @RayBarbeeMusic does not intend to answer these questions. In case anybody is wondering the answers to these questions, I'm going to provide this as evidence that my claims are correct, proving 1) that there is residual noise with SSCII and 2) that two coils, one of which is RWRP, can be more effective than SSCII at cancelling hum and noise in practice:


    https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-noiseless-pickup-vs-humbucker.1961086/page-2
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  14. sunking101

    sunking101 Member

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    Suhr charge more and I could easily get a pro set-up done on a Strat Ultra or Original Series and still be quids in.
     
  15. CaliCaveMan

    CaliCaveMan Silver Supporting Member

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    you could save even more doing your own setups.

    Great customer service, high quality wood selection, custom options galore, great pickups. Comparing off the rack to that, no thanks. For some folks, it’s worth the difference in price.
     
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  16. mattmccloskey

    mattmccloskey Supporting Member

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    My guitars with SSC2 are just as quiet as the RWRP positions in my other guitars.
    More importantly, the important positions (neck and bridge) are quiet. The 2 Combo positions on a Strat are nearly worthless to me. Particularly with overdrive, they sound like hollow crap.
    Likewise the middle position on a Tele is thin and only occasionally usable.
     
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  17. iamdavea

    iamdavea Silver Supporting Member

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    How can you give relief to just one side of the neck?
     
  18. Rhythm Rocker

    Rhythm Rocker Member

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    Wow. Some peeps just love to pounce on someone and twist his meaning. Just because he could feel the soul n vibe of his street dog he chose over a new one (pg.3). He didn't disrespect anyone or anything. He was saying it moved him. That's what a great Fender guitar does too.FCS!
     
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  19. RayBarbeeMusic

    RayBarbeeMusic Member

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    Your position is so obviously absurd on its face that it didn't merit further comment. You clearly are happy with an instrument with only two positions that meet the stated criteria, and believe that to be equivalent to an instrument with up to 10 usable, and hum free tones.

    That speaks for itself.
     
  20. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    By doing away with more of the fret on the Bass side. Good for ham fisted players.

    Listen starting at 630


     

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