Inexpensive amp to use with modeler

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by killa j, May 2, 2016.

  1. killa j

    killa j Supporting Member

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    Hey guys,

    I had a financial issue and had to sell all of my tube amps recently. Well, currently trying to sell them. Anyway, I'm going to use BIAS Fx on my iPad in the meantime until I get my medical bills under control. I have a PA speaker (Alto TS112), but it just doesn't sound very good with BIAS. It's very muddy, like a lot of upper mids are missing. Could just be the program or the interface, but I've heard some pretty good sounding clips made with BIAS.

    I'm thinking an inexpensive tube amp would be a good way to go, running into the effects return. That would also give me the option of using the amp itself if I want some sort of backup. I was thinking something like a Peavey Valveking. I've seen them for basically dirt cheap, and they sound pretty "neutral" when clean. Has anyone tried one with a modeler into the effects return? Or have another amp as a suggestion? Going for cheap, so going to have to be something used.
     
  2. kiki_90291

    kiki_90291 Member

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    How about a modeling amp with an effect loop - like a Mustang or one of the Blackstar models.
     
  3. jerryratpack

    jerryratpack Gold Supporting Member

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    I have to say, I sometimes use my mustang 3 in the front , or in the return and it sounds pretty good with other modelers. I haven't tried bias, but I like software sims via headphones better than thru monitors etc. I think I can dial it in easier via headphones.

    Bu I would download all the free and /or trial amp sims and test the out with your alto. I have no experience with that , but you might be able to dial in the others and one may sound better than the other.

    Also, don't forget to try and eq our tones
     
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  4. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Get a Tech 21 power cab for it.. There's one in the emporium
     
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  5. killa j

    killa j Supporting Member

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    The Power Engine seems like a cool idea, but it wouldn't be usable on its own. At least from what I understand about it. I'd like something that is a stand-alone amp in addition to amplifying the modeler.

    How is the effects loop on the Fender Mustang? I could be thinking of a different amp, but I seem to remember reading that the loop still runs through the digital processing. I can get one of the Mustang heads for what I'm looking to spend - I already have cabs.
     
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  6. Nick Shephard

    Nick Shephard Member

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    That doesn't sound right to me, the Alto shouldn't sound muddy. Have you checked the global settings in Bias? Plenty of settings to play with there including a 3 band eq.
     
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  7. MrLahey

    MrLahey Member

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    Peavey bandit for $100 used. Saves money. Sounds good by itself and with modelers both in the input and in the effects return. Can break your toes if you stumble into it. Seriously worth the money and once back on yoir feet you can resell it for the same price.
    Cheers.
     
  8. mojah

    mojah Member

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    Try turning on the contour switch on the alto and cut the bass way back in bias. I have the alto and it does sound mid compressed with little sparkle compared to my jbls. I've done that with my alto but use a high pass filter to tame the low end. It will brighten up the Alto and make it seem less compressed.
     
  9. toomanyamps

    toomanyamps Member

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    This is probably the best answer you are going to find.
     
  10. Guitardave

    Guitardave Supporting Member

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    Yep, I picked up a Solo Series Blue Stripe Bandit w/Sheffield a few months back and it sounds great with the Helix in 4 CM or direct into the effects return.
     
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  11. eriwebnerr

    eriwebnerr Member

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    If this is the case the little Quilter 101 head might be a good option. They sound killer on their own or with modelers.

    I agree regarding the Bandit, first thing that came into my mind and came in to say that.
     
  12. chrisjnyc

    chrisjnyc Supporting Member

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    You dont need a tube amp... get a Roland Jazz Chorus. Also, try another PA speaker, EV ZLX, or the newer Alto TS210...
     
  13. Fatherflot

    Fatherflot Member

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    Just my two cents, but based on the circumstances you described, wouldn't you want to first exhaust every possibility that involved using the Alto TS112 that you already have?

    I can only speak from my own experience, but GAS has a way of coloring my thinking about the gear I already have and convincing me that another purchase will solve the issue when I haven't necessarily done all I could to address it via getting to know the gear I already have.

    If that does not apply in this case, feel free to ignore.
     
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  14. Clifford-D

    Clifford-D Member

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    So the op wants a killer stand alone amp that would also be killer for their modeling?

    I don't think that exists, imo modelers sound best when the whole thing is about modeling. A killer amp will color your modeling sound even when going through the effects loop, the power amp has its character too.

    There are expensive solutions, and there are more reasonable solutions.

    I personally really liked the Tech 21 Power Engine 60 for my Kemper. No preamp, in the PE60, that's why it doesn't stand on its own, it needs the modeler or profiler to be the preamp.

    I have not seen the stand alone amp that really complements the digital gear.
    Compared side by side the Power Engine will BLOW away a real amp for use with digital gear.

    I look at it like this, as soon as you plug in any pedal or modeler/profiler into a real amp you will compromise both with less than ideal true tone. As soon as you hit the stompbox your $50,000 Dumble is no longer that amp, it becomes half stompbox that cost $119. Anything plugged into the Dumble really has to be an extraordinary pedal such as Robben Ford's use of the Zendrive.

    In the case of using a modeler/profiler into the Dumble would be defeating the purpose of both pieces of gear. You lose the Dumble sound and the amp will not faithfully recreate the intended sound of the digital gear amp models.

    Atomic powered cabs are a great choice and are pretty expensive. But the Power Engine 60's wood cabinet gives it an amp feel to it, it wont sound sterile. The wood cab sound is what we want to hear. So the PE60 gives a pristine clean power amp in a real amp cab.

    You can get a used PE60 for $250 in great shape if you search. But make sure it has the Celestion seventy/80 speaker, the earlier version had a Eminence speaker that was good, but the seventy/80 is better for modelers, probably the most transparent speaker Celestion has. But there is no truly transparent speaker, the comparison would be to record the modeler direct, and then record the modeler through the cab be it a real amp, or PE60, or Atomic,,, and listen to the playback, which do you prefer. If you can't do that then it becomes a riskier way to go taking advice here at tgp. Except my advice because I am always right and I'm never wrong.


    lol
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
    Rod likes this.
  15. Chris Pile

    Chris Pile Member

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    I thought the whole point of modeling amps was as a replacement for amps - correct?
    Run the modeling unit through a quality board or into a good PA cabinet, and you're good... right?
    Plugging a modeling amp into another guitar amp is redundant, is it not?
     
  16. Elric

    Elric Supporting Member

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    Before you go out and start buying sh*t, especially if you are on a budget, troubleshoot the rig... what interface are you using for the device?

    That speaker should be fine. Bias is retardedly bright if anything. People on the net will GLADLY spend YOUR money all day long recommending stuff.
     
  17. Clifford-D

    Clifford-D Member

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    I've never tried the pa, nor do I want to. I want a cab on stage because I'm old school and I like to have a good stand alone rig.
    I am just not into bands with no gear on stage. To go down to the stage before the show and gas over the bands gear is a blast. You talk to other gear sluts standing there and everyone talks gear.
     
  18. RLD

    RLD Member

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    @killa j
    As an owner of an Alto TS112A and a CLR I would revisit your usage with it before buying something else.
    I have used both FRFR's with an AmpliFIRE, AX8 and a Kemper and the Alto holds it's own against the CLR.
    Patches that sound great on the CLR sound good on the Alto with no added eq adjustments necessary.
    I'm not saying the Alto is as good as the CLR...it's not, but there is not a dramatic difference that would make it sound like you are describing...IMO of course. :D
     
  19. JCW308

    JCW308 Supporting Member

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    Fender Mustang III v2 plays very nicely with other modelers and pedals.
     
  20. 3dognate

    3dognate Supporting Member

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    I like the Bandit option as well...

    But the Alto should sound good.... keep investigating...
     

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