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Interesting speaker "shootout"

JimmyR

Member
Messages
3,790
Well I found it interesting anyway. I have a home brew 5E3 tweed Deluxe that I built with a choke and a few other little mods and it's one of my fave amps. I have been using a Celestion Gold in it for a while, but recently a friend lent me a Scumback 30 H55 30W to try. So I thought I'd compare it with the Gold and a Blue. The Blue has been in the amp for about a month and I was going to switch back to the Gold anyway. So I tried the Scumback in between. Guitars were a 335, a Guild Starfire III and a PRS McCarty in Korina. All have stock pickups.

The Blue is very clear and chimey as they are known to be. With vol on the amp at about halfway and guitars maxed there is a lot of volume and a hint of fizz to the tone. Turning guitar vol down a hair reduces the fizz. Bass can be a little loose. This particular 5E3 is reasonably tight in the low-end because of my mods. I suspect most guys would love this tone.

In comparison, the Scumback was a tad "drier" sounding, but not in a bad way. It made the amp sound more like a tweed deluxe. Bass a tiny bit tighter than the Blue but highs a little hairier and loose. Not as much mid emphasis. Overall not as sparkly but a very good sound - more traditional I guess. Not as loud either. A very likable sound!

But when I put the Gold back in it was all over. Loud! More mids than the Scumback and maybe even the Blue - certainly much more bass. But the bass notes are so much clearer than either of the other speakers. No fizz even with guitars maxed. Beautiful sparkly trebles and much chimey goodness. My 335 bridge pickup honks like I'm playing through a stack when cranked and the neck pickup gets almost BF Fender tones when the vol is rolled down a bit on the guitar. Just leave vol and tone on the amp around halfway and work it from the guitar and there are so many tones to be had. No crap in the tone, no flub, no fizz - amazing.

I knew from memory that the Blue wasn't as bassy or tight as the Gold but didn't expect the differences to be so clear. The Gold IS quite bassy and the 5E3 can be a bassy amp, so I have changed a couple of caps in the amp to reduce the boom. This amp is incredible but it's definitely partly due to the Celestion Gold.

I would love to get another Scumback to try as a 2x12 with a Marshall though. I suspect it would be great.
 

bynt

Member
Messages
2,130
Wow, how cool. I've been looking at those three speakers for a cab. Thanks for the shootout!!!
 

Roach

Member
Messages
415
Another good 5E3 option is the Scumback Scumnico. Has a lot of the Blue DNA, but sounds a bit fuller (if that's possible), tighter bottom, but a bit less high end.
 

JimmyR

Member
Messages
3,790
I'd been wanting to hear a Scumback for a while. I may try just the one I have here in a 2x12 cab I have to see how it sounds with a Marshall style amp. I love G12Hs with Marshalls so it should be interesting.

Roach I would love to try a Scumnico but I'm pretty happy with the Gold in the 5E3 right now!
 

Lespaulsignature 74

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,746
You can check with Jim Seavall at southbayampworks but I believe that his 75H speakers are his closest model to the celestion G12H 30's. I have a pair of 10" Scumnico's in a Mojo cab and they sound phenominal!!!
 

JimmyR

Member
Messages
3,790
Hmmm... I'll have to check out Scumback 10" speakers. I have yet to find 10" speakers I LOVE for my 4x10 Bassman clone.
 

Rossl

Member
Messages
298
I thought the Gold was pretty much the same Speaker as the Blue only higher wattage. I guess the different voice coil will change the sound as you described. I've been dying to hear them in my 2 12 combo.................but the price is a bit high, especially for 2.

Hey Jimmy,

Why did you add the chocke to the 5e3 clone? Are you happy with it it (the choke)?
 

JimmyR

Member
Messages
3,790
I tried running two Golds in my homebrew 5F8-A Tweed Twin and wow! They sound fantastic with that amp! But I also tried them as a 2x12 with other amps like Marshalls and Badcats and they were kinda too much of a good thing. Good to use one Gold with a G12H or similar. I was surprised at how different the Blue sounded from the Gold in my 5E3. I guess the main thing is that the Gold is bassier and doesn't break up as much - sounds more solid. In the right amp it is the most amazing speaker I have ever heard, but doesn't work with all amps.

Rossl - this Deluxe is the second one I have built and I specifically wanted to build a 5E3 that sounded like a Deluxe but had a much tougher, tighter low-end. So I used typical Deluxe stuff like a dead stock original-style Mojo chassis and cab. I even used the Mojo output tranny because I like their trannies mostly. I used a Mojo 6V6 choke because I wanted to tighten up the bass. I put it in the circuit between filters caps where the 5K power resistor would normally be. It does exactly what I wanted - helps keep the bass from getting flubby and farty.

I also used higher filtering so therefore went with a Weber copper cap recto to avoid blowing the tube up. I originally built it with a Mojo 5E3 power tranny and it sounded fine, but curiousity led me to try a Mercury Magnetics "Fat-stack" 5E3 P/T. It did help a little with a tougher low end but increased the bass so much that I had to change the first two coupling caps from .1uF to .022 to keep the bass in check. Now it sounds just how I wanted. It sounds like a Deluxe but with no fizziness and with a beautifully defined low end. No farty flab here! Oh - I also used the "PaulC" phase inverter mod which helps reduce the fizz also. It's named after Paul Cochran of Timmy fame and is just a simple mod.

So - yes, I am happy with my choke! Sorry for my rambling...
 
Messages
12,052
Well I found it interesting anyway. I have a home brew 5E3 tweed Deluxe that I built with a choke and a few other little mods and it's one of my fave amps. I have been using a Celestion Gold in it for a while, but recently a friend lent me a Scumback 30 H55 30W to try. So I thought I'd compare it with the Gold and a Blue. The Blue has been in the amp for about a month and I was going to switch back to the Gold anyway. So I tried the Scumback in between. Guitars were a 335, a Guild Starfire III and a PRS McCarty in Korina. All have stock pickups.

The Blue is very clear and chimey as they are known to be. With vol on the amp at about halfway and guitars maxed there is a lot of volume and a hint of fizz to the tone. Turning guitar vol down a hair reduces the fizz. Bass can be a little loose. This particular 5E3 is reasonably tight in the low-end because of my mods. I suspect most guys would love this tone.

In comparison, the Scumback was a tad "drier" sounding, but not in a bad way. It made the amp sound more like a tweed deluxe. Bass a tiny bit tighter than the Blue but highs a little hairier and loose. Not as much mid emphasis. Overall not as sparkly but a very good sound - more traditional I guess. Not as loud either. A very likable sound!

But when I put the Gold back in it was all over. Loud! More mids than the Scumback and maybe even the Blue - certainly much more bass. But the bass notes are so much clearer than either of the other speakers. No fizz even with guitars maxed. Beautiful sparkly trebles and much chimey goodness. My 335 bridge pickup honks like I'm playing through a stack when cranked and the neck pickup gets almost BF Fender tones when the vol is rolled down a bit on the guitar. Just leave vol and tone on the amp around halfway and work it from the guitar and there are so many tones to be had. No crap in the tone, no flub, no fizz - amazing.

I knew from memory that the Blue wasn't as bassy or tight as the Gold but didn't expect the differences to be so clear. The Gold IS quite bassy and the 5E3 can be a bassy amp, so I have changed a couple of caps in the amp to reduce the boom. This amp is incredible but it's definitely partly due to the Celestion Gold.

I would love to get another Scumback to try as a 2x12 with a Marshall though. I suspect it would be great.
Interesting:it seems to me that you should be considering an H75-8 for a 5E3 circuit.The other speaker has 2-3-4 less dB sensitivity that the H55.Maybe the Scumbag himself will chime in.It sounds like the speaker sensitivity played a large role in you assessment.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,873
Interesting test, but you were using very different speakers. I'm not surprised at the results, though. When you looked at what you tested it's easy to see why.

Cele Blue, 15w lead speaker cone, alnico 40 oz magnet, around 100-101 db

Cele Gold, 50w lead speaker cone, alnico 40 oz magnet, around 101-102db.

H55, 30w BASS cone (55hz bass response vs 75-80), 50 oz magnet (more bass, less treble), 98-99db

An H75 or really, a Scumnico, would have been more appropriate, or more of an "apples vs apples" test than the one you did here.

5E3's respond well to lead cone speakers overall, not bass cone models.
 




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