Intonate at 24th fret instead of 12th

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by DarkenedGod, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. C-4

    C-4 Member

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    I use the 19th fret, 22nd, and 12th and try to get an average. It works out well for me as my guitars sound in tune playing chords all the way up the neck.

    I mostly concentrate on 19 and 22 however.
     
  2. Jerrod

    Jerrod Silver Supporting Member

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  3. bob-i

    bob-i Member

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    that’s one reason yes. I realize this is a joke, but...

    I’ve spent many hours practicing vibrato and making sure it’s in tune. I push the note slightly flat similar to the way a classical guitarist creates vibrato, then use cross the neck vibrato. By doing this push first you can prevent the vibrato from going sharp.
     
  4. poppunk

    poppunk Member

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    Using the 12th fret systematically removes the biggest error across the entire fretboard, and it's pretty easy to teach people to do. Maybe the crown on your 12th fret isn't great on that string, you check some other places, then you realize you need to slide it to compensate. Or, as other people have stated, you play in a certain area of the neck and you know how to optimize it so it's more balanced across those frets.

    We know there's no perfect intonation, and that there are compromises. At some point you may want a ton of complexity with a system to optimize something. Maybe you just enjoy the technical exercise. But most people are totally fine, assuming they have decently placed and crowned frets, just going dead on with the 12th fret and being good to go.
     
  5. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    The Pythagorean comma has nothing to do with octaves in 12TET. It happens with you tune perfect fifths. I can’t remember which octave the comma occurs at, but it’s not an issue unless you’re using Pythagorean tuning. Unless you have some bizarre custom made instrument, you aren’t.
    It’s the intonation of the fretted note being adjusted, not the harmonic. The harmonic is only to ensure the open string is in tune.
     
  6. gunslinger

    gunslinger Member

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    How do you compare the harmonic at the 24th fret?
     
  7. MikeMcK

    MikeMcK Silver Supporting Member

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    Technically it happens in every octave, no? Pythagorean tuning uses frequency ratios of 1.5 (exactly) as fifths. In 12TET, the frequency ratio of a fifth to the starting note is 2^(7/12) ~ 1.498
     
  8. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    A normal guitar can’t be tuned to Pythagorean ratios, anyway. As for harmonics, why would they be affected by Pythagorean ratios, in any way? They happen regardless of how the octaves are divided. Pythagorean tuning has nothing to do with “higher frequencies.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma
     
  9. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    To what?
     
  10. Thesleepstalker

    Thesleepstalker Member

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    It wasn't a joke. It's funny because it's true.
     
  11. MikeMcK

    MikeMcK Silver Supporting Member

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    Right, we may be saying the same thing... harmonics are integer multiples. String harmonics are ratios of 2 (12the fret octave), 3 (7th fret), 4 (5th fret) etc. My point was that a 12TET fifth from an open string is not an octave below the 7th fret harmonic, but it's close.
     
  12. Thesleepstalker

    Thesleepstalker Member

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    I've been looking all morning for some information or a video about intonating an electric guitar at the 3rd, 15th, 17th, 19th, or 24th fret, or the wisdom of doing so. Everything I can find says the 12th fret. Anybody got a video or a link?
     
  13. The_Whale

    The_Whale Member

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    No, but it looks like you already know all you need to know; check/set the intonation at a couple of frets to spread the guitar's imperfect intonation across the fretboard.
     
  14. The_Whale

    The_Whale Member

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    Assuming you have a tuner, why would you compare a harmonic to anything; just fret the string and check its pitch.

    :dunno
     
  15. Thesleepstalker

    Thesleepstalker Member

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    I've done that on the lower frets to sort out a nut that was a little high, but under normal conditions the time honored 12th fret method is all I need. Anything out of tune after that is generally my fault.
     
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  16. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    Because that doesn’t tell you which end needs to be adjusted.
     
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  17. ZepFuzz05

    ZepFuzz05 Supporting Member

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    I feel like the following video is appropriate for this topic. Though fairly general, it's probably the most lucid and informative (brief) discussion of guitar intonation that I've seen:

     
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  18. The_Whale

    The_Whale Member

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    Yeah, if a guitar has very good intonation it doesn't really matter how you check/set its intonation.

    It's when a guitar's intonation isn't too good one needs to start making compromises and choosing different fret/s to check/set its intonation.
     
  19. Thesleepstalker

    Thesleepstalker Member

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    I'd be looking to alleviate that situation.
     
  20. The_Whale

    The_Whale Member

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    Sometimes the situation escapes alleviation!
     

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