IR Properties

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Jay Mitchell, May 17, 2019.

  1. antcarrier

    antcarrier Member

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    Here's a short clip of Jay's FF IR:

     
  2. Dancing Fool

    Dancing Fool Member

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    I'm lucky enough being able to use Logic and its Space Designer IR plugin, which offers a setting for "volume compensation" (seems to internally normalize things or so). Extremely handy when comparing IRs.

    There's some other IR loaders offering this as well, for example Impuls Records "Convology XT", which is even free:
    https://impulserecord.com/convology-xt/
    Unfortunately, it's quite a CPU hog and loading your own IRs is a bit of a hassle (whereas I have a tool converting .wav files straight to Space Designer presets in milliseconds, took it 30 seconds to convert the entire RedWirez library - might be an interesting thing to consider for Logic users, it's called Space Designer Manager, comes in at €29 and paid off for me in those 30 seconds it took for the RW stuff...). In addition, these things are usually tailored to be used as reverb units, not allowing you to use multiple IRs parallely and what not. Fwiw, for parallel IR loading, I can only recommend LePous LeCab, allowing you to load up to 6 IRs at once, comes with its own HP/LP filters, panning and phase flipping (free as well).
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  3. Lele

    Lele Member

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    Thanks a lot for the suggestions, even if I use Windows so Logic is out of question.
    I'll check the other VST, even if I'm afraid normalization is probably not enough in case of cab/mic IRs.

    I stopped using Lecab(2) some years ago because for me it didn't give the same quality results of alternative solutions when they came out. I'm afraid that LeCab truncates the IRs too much, maybe at about 256 samples. I have never found any exact information about this point; once I asked this matter to the author (now it seems his blog is closed) and the answer was something like "I don't remember"...
     
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  4. Dancing Fool

    Dancing Fool Member

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    Oh, I see. Now that you're saying it, I even seem to rememeber reading something along these lines. Should perhaps try it in an A/B comparison. But then, the other free ones (such as NadIR) aren't bad, either.
     
  5. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    I don’t own a Kemper but out of curiosity, wouldn’t some of issues under discussion also apply to shooting profiles as well - recognizing that much of character of a profile is shaped by post-processing of the initial capture.
     
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  6. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    They would definitely apply. How you would address them when acquiring a profile is an open question.
     
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  7. frankencat

    frankencat Guitarded Supporting Member

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    Good to see you here again Jay.

    As much as I would like to I haven't really spent any time dissecting what actually makes up and IR so this is an informative and appreciated topic. Thanks everyone! :)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  8. burningyen

    burningyen Vendor

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    Somewhat related, compare the tone of John Mayer's solo presumably captured by his phone starting at 6:05:



    vs. the close-miked tone in the final release starting at 3:27:



    His setup for that session:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  9. ba_hill

    ba_hill Supporting Member

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    I spent some time with the IRs Jay sent. I've uploaded a clip of each. It's about 4:30 of noodling through a RedPlate BlackVerb into a Suhr Reactive Load into Logic Pro X with the LA Convolver convolution plugin. The clips start off with distortion from the amp, switch to a clean tone at about 1:32 and then to fuzz into the amp at about 3:36. You can download the 24bit/48kHz WAV files from SoundCloud.



    I found both IR B to be pretty bad and didn't spend a lot of time on it after the initial listening. It sounds like it was recorded through a paper tube. The other 2 IRs both sounded much better but were different. A has more lower midrange and bass than C. I compared those 2 to a number of IRs from Celestion, Ownhammer and RedWirez. Jay's IRs sound more balanced in frequency response than most of the other IRs I compared them to. The others tended to sound scooped with unnatural (in both amount and character) bass and harsh treble. They also tended to sound a bit distant and indistinct even though I chose very close mic'd IRs when information about micing was available. I don't perceive a clear difference in the distance from which A and C were mic'd. There is a noticeable difference in the low mid and bass response but both IRs sound more upfront than most of the commercial IRs I compared them to. I suspect that eliminating reflections eliminates the sense of distance.

    I hope some commercial IR vendors are following this thread and begin to offer IRs like these.

    Thanks, Jay, for this thread and for sending these IRs!

    Brian
     
  10. The Trout

    The Trout Member

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    Pm'd!
     
  11. hippietim

    hippietim Member

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    This should include his near-field technique as well - his NF IRs sound fantastic as well.
     
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  12. hippietim

    hippietim Member

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    This. This is what I want. A handful of IRs that capture the sound of the cabinets in question. All of the commercial IR packs drive me nuts. Hundreds of IRs for a single freakin' cabinet? That's misery to me. Scrolling and auditioning ad nauseum. And after a while I can't tell what's good and bad because my ears just want me to stop and just play the guitar.

    Your IRs sound like cabinets to me - as opposed to cabinets in some room mic'd with a 57 2" off axis, and then with a 121 at a 45 to the cone, blah, blah, blah.
     
  13. Chocol8

    Chocol8 Member

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    This is why I think I need to learn to make my own IR’s. I have thousands of files that are not only hard to sift through and audition, but also unsatisfying.

    If I can get just one good one of a 2x12 with D120’s, one with C-Rex’s, and one with Celestion Alnico’s, I will be able to cover 95% of my wants and needs.

    That doesn’t seem like too much to ask for, but the commercial market seems more focused on producing 50,000 bad IR’s of Vintage 30’s in every cab and mic combination imaginable.
     
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  14. djd100

    djd100 Member

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    You can also take your method a step further and use a short delay here and there to approximate multiple mic placement distances from source (roughly 1ms per foot etc), as lots of tones are/were partly the product of the phase relationships of multiple mics (plus recording environment, and assuming that the IR's are trimmed at the head etc).

    As for auditioning, PSA, Two Notes hardware also allows real-time mic placement of two mics via their proprietary IR/DSP cab sim's (Two Notes software unlimited mics and cabs etc), which is very fast and intuitive to use, i.e. just like the real-deal where you pick a cab and mic(s), then place it/them in real-time for the sound you're looking for (rather than auditioning lots of IR's with built in placements etc).
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  15. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    I just came back from measuring our warehouse. The dimensions are large enough to capture at least 30 ms of reflection-free far-field data. We are not getting another shipment for a few weeks so the warehouse will be almost empty in a couple weeks. So we're going to gather a bunch of our cabs up and do a huge far-field IR session. I'm figuring six or so IRs per cab: 0, 10, 20,...,60 degrees.
     
  16. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    What's in the next shipment? :crazyguy:)
     
  17. yeky83

    yeky83 Member

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    I'll report my experience. It sounds good and natural! Even the close-mic'ed one sounds better to me than a lot of other available IRs. But I quite prefer the far-field one (or what I think is the far-field one), as it's not bloated and has a more focused sound. I really like it.

    I only really use a handful of IRs, and this new one is added to that short list. Thanks Jay.

    I'm hesitant to put up a sound clip since my playing might just as well dissuade someone from trying the IRs lol, but here ya go. A Tele-type in middle position (it's noisy where I live), into some Axe-Fx III amp models, into the far-field IR, into a Fractal room reverb for the headphone playing I do a lot these days:

    Edit: changing my upload service
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  18. yeky83

    yeky83 Member

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    YES! Thank you Cliff, looking forward to it!

    (FM3 in a few weeks...? :p)
     
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  19. Mark Al

    Mark Al Member

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    Thank you Cliff, looking forward to hearing the result :)
     
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  20. hippietim

    hippietim Member

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    That'll be awesome! Do you have access to a Bruel and Kjaer 4007 microphone like Jay used? His DR IRs using that microphone are excellent.
     

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