IR Properties

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Jay Mitchell, May 17, 2019.

  1. Alex Kenivel

    Alex Kenivel Member

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    not a lot of time recently. typing with one hand while feeding a tiny baby. I used the 412 ir and dial ed up instant old school deftones tones and got lost in what little time I had to myself. off to change a diaper
     
    Ginger Lefty likes this.
  2. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

    Messages:
    5,634
    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Location:
    Allen, TX
    Which 4x12 IR. Did I miss something?

    EDIT: Nevermind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Alex Kenivel likes this.
  3. adamquek

    adamquek Member

    Messages:
    708
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Your diaper, or the baby's?
     
    favance, Alex Kenivel and burningyen like this.
  4. BjarneDa

    BjarneDa Member

    Messages:
    448
    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Oh really 99.99% of all Cab IR was made for recording engineers to use in studios not made for live use.
    A.f.a.k they never marketing them to be use in a live situation.
     
  5. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Please provide support for this allegation. From the online discussions I have seen, I have the impression that most buyers of IRs use them to play live, either in their bedroom, rehearsal space, or on stage.

    FYI, most recording "engineers" have their own ideas about how to use microphones to record guitar and have no real need for third-party IRs. If they want to use IRs, they can take their own.

    Furthermore, really good "engineers" and producers commit to a single result that represents their best effort when they make a recording. How many recordings have ever been offered with hundreds of different combinations of mic choices and placements, so you can choose which one sounds best?
     
    Markdude and ejecta like this.
  6. Gearzilla

    Gearzilla Member

    Messages:
    2,872
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Matchless or Vox style FF IR would complete the trifecta.

    :bow
     
    viden, MIJLOVER and StickyWicket520 like this.
  7. ejecta

    ejecta Member

    Messages:
    5,239
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    I would have sent you this in a PM but you have limited your profile as to who can see it and I guess I’m on the naughty list. Anyway... I just wanted to say to save you some time of posting posts like this one in the future as they won’t be necessary. I have no interest in continuing the back and forth between us. Your personality is what it is and mine is what mine is but that doesn’t mean we can’t be civil to each other here on this forum. I will not in the future post anything other than gear related talk between us. So I ask let’s stop critiquing each other’s posts in terms that relate to personal behavior. I’m hoping we can move forward and not clutter good threads like this one with the personal nonsense that should be left in the past.
     
  8. ilyslue2

    ilyslue2 Member

    Messages:
    686
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2013
    Ok...another comparison...4X12. One part is recorded with a 4X12 two notes torpedo cab, and another part is recorded with Jay Mitchells 4X12. Both parts share the same amp setting and is recorded in one take. I just switch presets. Can you guess which is which?
    BTW I find one of the sounds to be closer to the original recording.

    Thanks again to Jay Mitchell for providing these IRs and a great thread
     
    burningyen and Jay Mitchell like this.
  9. ibanez270

    ibanez270 Member

    Messages:
    791
    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Location:
    In the country
  10. Ginger Lefty

    Ginger Lefty Member

    Messages:
    61
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Demo time using JMDemoC IR. Guitar is an LP style with low output humbuckers. Starts on the neck pickup, then switches to bridge. This obviously is not a comparison, but I love the clarity of this IR, and I hope you can hear that in the short clip.

     
    favance, AtomicBlaze and Jay Mitchell like this.
  11. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    While this kind of comparison is interesting in its own way - and I really do appreciate the effort it takes to make and share it - it's a bit unrealistic. The second part of the clip is a bit darker. Depending on which one you prefer, either one could easily be made to sound more like the other. And either one can be made to sound more like the recording, if that sort of thing is important to you.
     
  12. Jarick

    Jarick Member

    Messages:
    6,000
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Location:
    Saint Paul, MN
    Finally caught up on this thread. It's really interesting to hear everyone's feedback.

    I'd also be interested if you ever made some IR's commercially available. Maybe a Kickstarter or Go Fund Me?

    It does strike me that impulses are extremely hit or miss. Even with the right gear, they can be horribly harsh or dull or thin. If that's the result of early room reflections (on top of poor mic placement), it would really help to explain the hit or miss aspect.

    I know when I had big studio monitors in a smaller room that moving them around changed the sound a fair amount. Pulling them away from the wall almost into the middle of the room cause the sound to really clear up, not just in the low but in the mids as well.

    And maybe then we aren't chasing "amp in the room" as much as we are chasing "not a dynamic microphone two inches away from the speaker". And it's less to do with the pleasant reflections of the room.

    Someone mentioned the IR's reminded them of Michael Britt's profiles, which was an interesting thought. Many people consider his profiles "dark" but they seem to be enjoyed by more people than any other profiler. I wouldn't even call them dark as much as I'd call them "smooth". Doesn't have the spikes and harshness that most IR's/profiles have. Maybe he has an element of that which he dials in.
     
    csweldon, burningyen and Chocol8 like this.
  13. Chocol8

    Chocol8 Member

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    The second one is Jay’s. On first listen and going by memory, I thought the first one sounded more like the recording, but after listening to the original recording, the second mid focused one is actually much closer. Shows how good my memory is.

    With a little tweaking of the TMB and Presence knobs in the amp block, I think you could get both IR’s closer to the recording, and that’s before introducing the EQ options we have at our disposal in modern modelers. That raises the question of what is the goal of the IR?

    Ultimately, perhaps the more interesting comparison will be to dial in two presets that sound almost the same and then see if there are remaining qualitative differences that make one IR preferable to the other.

    When I first tried the “JM412” IR last night I thought is was too dark, perhaps muffled and muddy. Definitely not an immediate winner. After dialing it in and adjusting the others, I think I am starting to see why Jay preferred it to his own earlier “JMMAR” 4x12 IR. I need more time with them, but I will post further impressions when I have more solid thoughts.
     
  14. Ginger Lefty

    Ginger Lefty Member

    Messages:
    61
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    I find JM412 anything but dark I must say. Tried it in a mix context and it sat in really nicely with still a nice amount of cut through.
     
  15. stratchamp57

    stratchamp57 Member

    Messages:
    1,901
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Yeah, the 4x12 IR jay let me try has a lot more low end than the “C” one, so I had to dial in quite a bit of low cut to get the lows out. Once I did though, I thought it sounded great.
     
  16. hippietim

    hippietim Member

    Messages:
    5,446
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    That cab is essentially a classic Marshall cab and those old Marshall amps were on the bright side so you may think about amp pairing and/or amp settings rather than adding cuts in the cab block.
     
    favance and MaxTwang like this.
  17. stratchamp57

    stratchamp57 Member

    Messages:
    1,901
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Well, I used a jumped plexi sim in my AX8, so I’d think that it would pair well with it. Even with these far field IR’s, I still feel like I need to add high and low cuts because it’ll either sound too bright or bassy if I don’t, unless I use drastic eq settings on the amp model.

    Is anyone else running high and low cuts with Jay’s IR’s?

    Of course, I’ve never heard an actual plexi with a Marshall cab in real life before, so maybe they really are that bright and bassy.
     
  18. the swede

    the swede Member

    Messages:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    On the 4x12 i use a 100hz low cut, seems to work fine. (its a Helix low cut, so I'm not sure if its a 12, 18 or 24 db per octave cut), but I use 52 gauge E string also.
    And its not a matter of lowering bass on the amp, imho.
     
  19. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    I've now posted two demo clips using that IR. Neither clip used low or high cuts in the cab block. Both of those clips were done with an Amplifire. I also never found the need to use low or high cuts with that IR in the Axe-FxII. I also did A/B comparisons between the IR and the physical cab. The IR is neither bottom- nor top-heavy compared to it.
     
    Chocol8 and stratchamp57 like this.
  20. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,042
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Couple of hot as f mixes using Jay's 4x12. Using Native for tone generation and some (old) stems. Helix Plexi, Mark IV and 5150 models. Ignore the 128k drum backing track :cry:

    I think I am getting a better handle on how to approach dialing in amp tone using this IR. I think :anon

     
    BoogieZilla, viden, iaresee and 9 others like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice