Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Jay Mitchell, May 17, 2019.
Buy a stompbox IR loader to pair with the G3n.
I know I could get this reasonable suggestion.
But to be honest, I prefer to settle for a worse tone, but just with the small multi-fx (only as backup or when I feel that it is more suitable: that is when it rains and I don't want to risk any damage to Helix! I played a few songs with just the MS-50g few weeks ago for that reason).
What's more my short experience and few attempts with a cheap modeler (RP360 / Zoom G1x / Zoom MS-50g / Boss ME-80) + an IR convolver (AMT CP-100) weren't satisfactory at all, and imho not improving the tone that much. Only an analog "modeler" (AMT O-2) + an IR convolver was gorgeous! But then I needed more flexibility and I sold everything to fund my Helix and I love it.
I took the 412 and mixed it with some sysex microphone IR's on my AxeFx to add mic sound to the raw sound of Jay's IR
AxeFx III w/ Skull Crusher amp into Jay Mitchell's 412 IR into the Mic IR's shared by Moke as sysex files
1. Raw - no Mic IR
4. 57 + U87
5. 57 + 421
6. 57 +R121
Are these IRs still available for sampling?
PM Jay and ask him.
They've changed everything for me. Just wish more of them would be available. Hope Line 6 hires someone like Jay to make more cabs have this option.
I love my Powercab, especially after the update, but this gives me the sound of the cab, not just different speakers. It sounds like an actual open back cab!
You have the far-field IR on series with a near-field one? I'm surprised that sounds good (haven't been able to listen to your clip in a reasonable environment yet), but whatever works.
According to the post, he mixed the 4x12 IR with IRs of microphones. If that description is accurate, then the result is not related to the sound the mics would have added had they been used to acquire the IR.
The way to combine a cab IR and a mic IR is to place them sequentially - the order doesn't matter - in the signal chain. Better yet, convolve the two IR files and create a single one that contains the sound of cab and mic.
Sorry, I put them in series, so amp block, Jay's IR in cab 1, then the mic in cab 2. If you have AxeFx, the mic IR's are here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/free-fractal-mic-sim-irs-from-the-axe-fx-ii-cab-block.142345/
A few follow up notes.
First, a source of frustration. From a consumer’s perspective, I am annoyed that I don’t have access to a full complement of IR’s similar to these. Not that I have a glaring need to build a huge catalog of tones, but I’d love to satisfy my curiosity and see what some other cabinet and speaker combinations have to offer.
At this point, I’m not using any IR’s other than the C, the 4x12, and occasionally one of the AC Golds that gigsup posted in the other thread. Still don’t have to add high/low cuts. C gets the most use, mainly based off what I’m using for amp models. The Helix DLX and twin are both perfectly suited for it, but I’ve also used it with the new Tweeds. I finally stumbled on what I feel is a very good crunchy Marshall sound using the JTM 45/4x12 combo by setting the amp clean, pushing it with a lightly-overdriven Heir Apparent, and adding a tilt EQ to the bright side. The tilt seems to really liven up the crunch. I’m not a huge Marshall aficionado, but it’s got all the characteristics I’d expect (and sounds really nice clean). For some reason that was a hard one to build, both before and after this thread came to my attention.
Finally, I’m not sure if I mentioned this in this thread or not, but I’m actually able to (and am actively) using my Alto FrFr since using these IR’s. While trying to build a new preset yesterday I started cycling through the other IR’s I have loaded and the I can’t express enough the glaring difference in boomy/muffled low end. It was just something I came to accept in the past, but frankly it’s just gross to hear at this point.
I’ll say it again, I wish somebody would run with this and start producing some more IR’s.
I replaced the Helix speaker emulation on all my Fender-ish tones with Jay's 'C' IR and have never looked back. We did some multi-track recording using line-in from the Helix and sound is just stellar. Haven't had time to really work with the 4x12 IR, but that's next up. If Line6 is as sharp as I believe they are, they are already consulting with Jay on the next generation of HX speaker cabinet modeling.
The "elephant in the room" question to me is why the modeler manufacturers have not given the same priority to cab simulation that they have given for years to amp simulation. IMO, realistic IRs should come with the modeler from the factory.
I've got several types of cabs, an interesting collection of drivers (e.g., Altec 417-8H, Cetec Gauss 12" protoypes they made for me ca. 1991), and I'm always on the lookout for more. Although I can acquire IRs in my facility with just a few minutes' preparation, the process of generating the final one(s) for a given cab is quite time-consuming and cannot be automated. I'm not interested in speculatively offering IRs for sale - there are already too many folks doing that, they're making unrealistic claims, the market size is dubious, and piracy is always a problem - but I would consider collaborative efforts with interested parties. So far, I've not been approached.
@Jay Mitchell I sent you a request via PM some time ago and have not gotten a reply yet. Have you stopped sharing these? It's fine either way of course, but this thread has really made me curious.
I did the same?
And I'm also still curious.
This has been mostly my experience too. I basically just use the 'C' IR on almost everything, since most of (my?) sounds are some variation of a Deluxe Reverb or something very similar. I use Jay's 4x12 on anything that I think should usually be played with a 4x12, but I have mostly come to the conclusion that I don't really use those types of sounds, so I haven't really spent a lot of time trying work with it. Mostly, what I have learned from this thread is that for my core sounds, I need a lot less variation that I had once thought. That isn't to say that I would like more of these types of IRs representing a wider range of options, because hell yes, I would.
+1000. I know that @Frank Ritchotte was watching this thread with a lot of interest at one point and made some comments on it earlier. Let's hope that interest is the seed of a plan coming together at some point to capture and provide IRs along these lines someday.
One thing is for sure... I am certainly not qualified nor do I have the resources to do this sort of thing justice!
Funny, because I’ve absolutely narrowed my sound down this summer too. I’m somewhat new to modeling, so my first plan of attack was to create unique presets for almost every song on our setlist. After test-driving that method live, it became apparent to me that a couple really stood out. My feeling on the 4x12 thing is similar in that I may use that type of preset 5-10% of the time. That’s just my preference and the genre we play play though.
I hope L6 looks hard at this too. In a perfect world, I’d much rather have an internal cab option like this so I didn’t have to source IR’s from a third party. It’s not like it was a fortune, but I wish I hadn’t spent the money I did on all the aftermarket IR’s I bought. Since I took the time to read this thread, the entire list of IR’s in HX Edit that I actually use only takes three spots.
The only thing I worry about is that the prevailing concept of IR’s, cabs, and mics, etc., seems so entrenched I don’t know how they’d approach it across an entire platform. Might only be realistic from a third party standpoint.
That's not what he did, but it can give very good results. I use the C IR that way actually, mostly because the speaker used in C is too middy for chugga-chugga-metal ( ), adding a traditionnal scooped IR gives a nice balance between both worlds
Ps: that reminds me I still have to do my little a-b-c review
That was pretty common practice when I had an AxeFx: use Jay's FF Gold IR to add some AITR to a near field IR.
This is *exactly* how I hear normal IR’s. Your description is spot on.
Also, with some IR’s I find the high end to be simultaneously ice-picky while lacking definition. How something can be muddy and at the same time too-bright seems to defy reasonable explanation, but those are the only words I have for what I (sometimes) hear.
@Frank Ritchotte ? Are you listening?
These are both attributes of comb filtering, caused by unwanted early reflections which create peaks and valleys in the freq response due to phase anomalies.