IR Properties

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Jay Mitchell, May 17, 2019.

  1. Will Chen

    Will Chen Member

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    Since first loading up Jay's 1X12 C paired with the Deluxe model in the HX Stomp, I've had zero interest in modifying the amp model controls nor IR of that preset, my main one. Just a perfectly beautiful pairing. Super happy and as Jay had mentioned, IRs created like these should really ship with devices.
     
  2. oøt

    oøt Member

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    It happened to me again today. Plugged my Helix direct to the house system. Jays ir C Helix, Cali Texas 1(Mesa Lonestar). 20 seconds later the engineer says: nice sounding box:) I'm using the settings I normally use, but adding a little bass on the amp settings. Sounds and feel great. I'd love a couple of more options:) I've also tried the 4x12, and I realise that it was never my thing. (Neither in analog life). But, I can hear the filtering between the different drivers much more clear than in any 4x12 ir I've heard. Very interesting. Thanks again Jay, this has been most educative, and I do hope someone contacts you! @Frank Ritchotte
     
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  3. randombastage

    randombastage Supporting Member

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    Is the 'Jay Mitchell C ir' something that is available to download somewhere?
     
  4. Ingolf

    Ingolf Member

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    No, you need to PM him to share it with you.
    That said, we can all hope for a @Jay Mitchell - Line 6 partnership to improve the overall quality of IR's that units like the Helix ship with.
    It never hurts to buy in some external expertise, perhaps there are negotiations already. ;)
     
  5. Gtrbldr

    Gtrbldr Member

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    Jay was so kind to send me the IRs to test them as well. Great experiment! I made a preset with 2 basic sounds, I use in my presets in my helix for P&W kind of music: an edge of break up and crunchy sound. My presets in the helix consist of 2 amps: a matchless DC30 and a /13.

    Based on the notes I guess A and C were made to sound more or less in the same ballpark. One them is the FF and one is NF: my guess would be that A is NF due to the fizz and more prominent bass response. C is more midrange prominent to my ears and I guess is the FF IR. It took some getting used to, and finding the right amp model in my helix (deluxe nrm), but is sounded realistic and (for lack of better words) amp like.

    B was totally different and - well - not my cup of tea. I did
    Not tinker around with it much.

    I really like the concept of these IRs, and would love to try some IRs of speakers types that are more my style. I am not a big fan of fendery types of speakers, to each his own I guess. What I like about the concept is -by lack of a better word- the natural response. It sounds real and not processed. However: if you are used to close miked tones, this is somewhat different. I guess in a live situation this will work well (midrange focus will sit nicely in a mix), but it needs some surgical removal of frequencies to sound great. I cut some around 600 Hz and it became a little more balanced to my ears.

    So: hopefully this concept will get some more attention and a bigger library. I like its natural sound :).
     
  6. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    That IR would not be my go-to for either of those amp models.

    I took a series of NF IRs at various mic positions and distances to see how close I could get the the FF one. The one in that pair is the closest one, and it's a long way from a match.
     
  7. Gtrbldr

    Gtrbldr Member

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    That is why I made a new preset with the deluxe nrm in the helix. That worked a lot better :)
     
  8. AZG

    AZG Supporting Member

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    I’m really hoping Line 6 @Frank Ritchotte and Fractal @cliffc8488 are working hard to capture and include a wider variety of FF IR in their devices? The FF IR provides by Jay and @gigsup have become my go to IRs. They really sound more natural and are easier to use IMO, but I would love more cab/speaker options.
     
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  9. GravityWell

    GravityWell Member

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    Fractal did actually capture and share some far field impulse responses recently, though they are not entirely reflection free. Also they are only for the Axe FX III. It has been said that they sound good, but I don’t have a Fractal product to hear them with. While I am interested in hearing them, I am more interested in reflection free far field impulse responses, because that is what this thread was about. That doesn’t mean the ones that Cliff captured are bad, they are just not exactly what we are (were?) discussing in this thread.
     
  10. ethomas1013

    ethomas1013 Supporting Member

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    Yes, some of the Fractal FF IR's sound really good. Some not so much. Some of them I like more than Jay's IR "C" and 4x12 IR, but that does not mean that the FAS FF IRs are "better" than Jay's or that they accurately represent the cabinets they were shot from. I just means that I like them for what I want to hear and that they work better for me with the amp models that I am pairing then with.
     
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  11. MIJLOVER

    MIJLOVER Member

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    I'm quoting you all just to say +10000000000!!

    @Frank Ritchotte
    Just joining in on the pressure – give Jay a call.

    Honestly, it would be a G ... changer :)
     
  12. Bigjay

    Bigjay Member

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    So, here is my little “review” of the A/B/C IR provided by Jay Mitchell. I spent a lot of time those last few weeks testing IRs, through my helix and all the available monitoring system I could find (headphones, PC-monitor, 2 PAs and an FRFR cab). Caveat: I’m mostly a high gain rhythm player and 90% of my testing was done with such sounds. I did try them with many different sounds, but my ears aren’t trained for those and my feedback wouldn’t be anything valuable with those other sounds. Also, it was the first time that I really spent hours creating sounds with IRs, I usually play through a guitar cab.

    I’ll start with saying that B was terrible, sounded like there was some modulation effect going, and it was all the more apparent as I turned gain up. Ditched it very fast.

    A is what I would call a good IR but not to my taste and nothing that would make me come back to it. It worked very well with my more “rock-edge of breakup” preset (same could be said with C), but that’s not a sound I use very often.

    I spent a lot of time with C (maybe due to some bias since I have been reading whole thread over here) and found it really interesting. When I first played, I didn’t like it: very middy, my preset sounded very boxy. But I was very surprised that they required no high/low cut and liked the “directness” of that sound. I played with it for a while then went back to my usual IRs… only to hear everything that was wrong with them: phasey sounds, uncontrollable basses. It was an “ear-opening” experience. I then tried to create a high gain preset from scratch for the C-IR. But I never really got it to work.

    I now use mixed IRs, using IR-C in combination with another more “traditional” sounding IR to give it a character closer to what I need. I also use the FF IRs found in another TGP thread and had some success mixing them in too.

    That experience made me much more critical of the qualities an IR need to have, and I deleted 90% of those I was using prior to those tests because I now find them completely unlistenable.

    IMO, FF-reflection free IRs are an answer to the problematic bass and high end response that most IRs show, and to have a sound closer to that of a real cab, but they won’t end the IR-hunt:
    - They can still be of different quality.
    - The speaker characteristic matters just as much as the quality of the IR. Even if IR-C is very good, I can’t really use it as is.
    - I also found FF IRs to be very sensitive to the monitoring system, even more so than regular IRs. You’ll still need different IRs for headphone/PA/FRFR and so on.

    It was a great experience and I’m thankful that Jay brought us that knowledge and those IRs to try them out.

    PS: A guitarist friend of mine never had a “real” amp. He started straight with emulations and now plays a kemper. He also produces a lot of music. I let him play through my FF presets… and he disliked them. I found that quite interesting… FF won’t fit everybody.

    PS2: now I have to try Jay’s 4x12 IR, to see if it gets me closer to what I need:banana
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM
  13. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    I don't ever play that style, but I can tell you that no open back 12" cab or IR of such a cab will be suitable for those sounds. I will further add that no IR will by itself produce a good headphone listening experience. Headphones are their own world. I never use them, nor do I attempt to develop solutions for them. At a minimum, you would need to dial in a reverb that replaces some of the room ambience you lose with 'phones. You also really need to equalize them for flat response on your ears. That in itself constitutes a formidable challenge.
    Absolutely. Getting reflection free far field IRs is just the first step along the way.
    Of course. The speaker characteristic is the entire reason for using an IR to simulate a speaker.
    These IRs are "regular IRs."
    You don't need different IRs. You do need different system settings - including reverb and equalization - for different monitoring types. If you make optimal use of these settings, you will not need to change IRs.
     
  14. WBellman

    WBellman Supporting Member

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    Can someone please post verifiable specs on this?
     
  15. DGTCrazy

    DGTCrazy Moderator de Emporio Staff Member

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    Folks, don't post quotes from other Forum's on TGP, especially when they shed any TGP member in a potentially negative or provocative manner. Thanks.
     
  16. big mike

    big mike Plexi Loving Admin Staff Member

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    And business members need to stop commenting on their competitors products
     
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  17. Tmidiman

    Tmidiman Member

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