Ironic ... giggles.

[Dale]

This is not a fully formed thought at this point. So pardon in advance.

I have been watching/listening several of the "emerging" artist type things with a decent sound system. I understand there is a lot of audio mushing in that context. The groups playing the "emerging" artists things have been playing largely middle level equipment, which is what caused this to stand out. They generally sound pretty darn good.

I then was listening live to a couple of local groups I have heard in various contexts. What struck me was that the live bands sound like the bands regardless (within limits) of the equipment they used. In one context I heard them they were playing the "boutique" equipment, and in another off the wall middle level equipment. It really did not matter much which equipment they played they sounded good, and like they always do.

While I have heard the middle level amps and the boutique independently and really hear a difference what impressed me (after 40 years) is how small the difference (if any) live so long as it was just some decent equipment. As "inspiration" for me comes with the interaction with others and not the pedal, guitar or amp there is something very comforting for me in this personal observation.

Thoughts?

 

[Fulldrive-1]

Tone is in the hands. Talent is in the brain.

Who cares what capacitors are in your OD pedal, or whether your V2 preamp tube is NOS?

 

[thosk]

Who cares what capacitors are in your OD pedal, or whether your V2 preamp tube is NOS?

This Forum.

 

[GP830]

This ^^^

 

[funkymonk10]

so buy really expensive gear so people think you're really good before you even start playing.

got it, check.

 

[Dale]

I assume sarcasm in above. I found myself giggling as it was apparent that there was not really much of a difference when I was in the audience. It was the musicians WAY more than the gear.

 

[tele_jas]

My band members (one I've been in a bands with since 1997) says my sound never changes, I still sound like "Jason" no matter what amp I play.

This hurts the ego to hear this, knowing there were times I used $350 worth of gear (plus my guitar) and now I use about $3500 worth of gear each night. Fender, Mesa, Marshall, Vox, and variants/boutique builds of all these and in the end, I sound like "me".

But, as a fellow gear geek, we guitarist need to be happy with our sound.

[EDIT]
I have found myself in a situation where my cheaper gear would actually do a better job or my "off the storeroom floor" amp.... But I find myself thinking "there may be other guitarist there" so I'll take the Dr. Z instead. So sometimes, ego does come in to play here. (and the say singers have big ego's)

 

[Dale]

Oh, I do not plan to sell the good stuff here. I think it is comforting to know that the gear does not make the player as much as the player makes the gear. I am pretty happy with what I have, but I am still planning the next one though as well!

 

[Leonc]

Totally get what you're saying Dale and I've experienced the same kind of thing many, many times. When I hear music being performed, it's the musicians' performance that is most likely to impress me and vocals (assuming there are any)...and then maybe the tones (unless they sound downright crappy...which is pretty rare). Some of the best performances and tones I've heard came from pretty mainstream gear. I've never really noted much of a correlation between cost of gear and my appreciation of live musical performance.

Beck playing Strats through Marshalls
Hendrix playing Strats through Marshalls (and Fenders)
Page playing through Marshalls (and possibly Supros)
Mick and Keith playing les Pauls, 335s, Teles, through Fenders and Ampegs
Benson playing through Polytones
Scofield playing Ibanez through AC30
Leroy Parnell playing a Les Paul through an tweed Bassman
etc etc

Related to this...one thing I've never thought to myself is, "Wow this guy's playing kinda sucks but he's getting great tone." I never hear great tones with sucky playing...it's irrelevant.

 

[Mattbedrock]

I think Leon hit it on the head. Good players sound good. Bad players sound bad. Gear is is relatively irrelevant when compared to talent. At the same time, good players tend to play through good, if not outstanding, gear. Warren Haynes with his Rivera, Soldano. Duane Allman and Dickey Betts with their Les Paul's and Marshall's. Derek Trucks with his Supers. (Yeah, I'm an Allman Brothers junkie). But gear is no substitute for talent. Which is why I'm posting on TGP instead of playing at MSG.

 

[Dale]

<snip>
Related to this...one thing I've never thought to myself is, "Wow this guy's playing kinda sucks but he's getting great tone." I never hear great tones with sucky playing...it's irrelevant.

Amen!

 

[Red House]

But gear is no substitute for talent. Which is why I'm posting on TGP instead of playing at MSG.

 

[Tone_Terrific]

Good sound is a much larger ballpark than is often assumed, in many cases.
However, trying to get gear to do what it does not do well will be disappointing and make a band sound 'bad.'
Using gear in its 'good' range will keep a band sounding 'good.'
It can be that simple.

 

[blustrat]

yep &#8230;. my gear is for me &#8230;. if i suck &#8230; it's not the gear , it's me &#8230;..
and when i'm great &#8230;. i know it's me &#8230;..

or as my father used to say &#8230;.. only a poor craftsman blames his tools

 

[michael.e]

As a musician, great gear inspires me. Mediocre gear, upon hearing and feeling it, does not.

Next?

 

[ejkennedy]

As a musician, great gear inspires me. Mediocre gear, upon hearing and feeling it, does not.

Next?

Thinking thats whole other thread.

 

[aman74]

Totally get what you're saying Dale and I've experienced the same kind of thing many, many times. When I hear music being performed, it's the musicians' performance that is most likely to impress me and vocals (assuming there are any)...and then maybe the tones (unless they sound downright crappy...which is pretty rare). Some of the best performances and tones I've heard came from pretty mainstream gear. I've never really noted much of a correlation between cost of gear and my appreciation of live musical performance.

Beck playing Strats through Marshalls
Hendrix playing Strats through Marshalls (and Fenders)
Page playing through Marshalls (and possibly Supros)
Mick and Keith playing les Pauls, 335s, Teles, through Fenders and Ampegs
Benson playing through Polytones
Scofield playing Ibanez through AC30
Leroy Parnell playing a Les Paul through an tweed Bassman
etc etc

Related to this...one thing I've never thought to myself is, "Wow this guy's playing kinda sucks but he's getting great tone." I never hear great tones with sucky playing...it's irrelevant.

I get what you're saying, but you gotta admit this place is pretty twisted when the cited examples are stuff that is considered all time classic and what the boutique market largely is trying to capture.

 

[teemuk]

Tone is in the hands. Talent is in the brain.

Who cares what capacitors are in your OD pedal, or whether your V2 preamp tube is NOS?

This Forum.

Touché.


IMO, we live in such ages that pretty much every amp product out there has capabilities to sound great in the right hands. ...And an amplifier will never turn one's guitar or chops into something that they already aren't. What goes in to the amp comes out with perhaps a little bit of spicing in it, but not as something entirely different.

 

[JB6464]

On the TGP , tone is in the wallet.
It could simply be the reason some of the bands you see play boutique amps is because they are built better .

 

[Papanate]

I get the OPs point. But I think most people miss the point
when observing the type of gear being used.

The Amp and Guitar(s) people use as well as the tone they get is
Not for the audience - it's so the musician hears what they want to
hear - which often inspires them to perform better because they
Are comfortable....