Is a Princeton "boxy" sounding? Also, will it fizz with dist. pedals like my HRDlx?

[wespants]

Giving serious consideration to selling my HRDlx and buying a SF Princeton NR. For the stuff I do, it should have plenty of volume (I'm usually mic'ed anyway). The Princeton will certainly be lighter and smaller. Since I can't find one nearby to try out though, TGP is my only hope of knowing:
1) Will the cleans be equal to or better than my HRDlx?
2) Will it fizz with some distortion pedals like my HRDlx? If so, can I swap to a speaker that won't fizz and will still give me classic Fender cleans?
3) Will it sound as boxy as a Blues Jr? I've already passed on that amp for that reason.
Any help would be much appreciated. Merry Christmas!

 

[Gnarlly]

1. Much better cleans
2. Fizz depends on the speaker. For example: the stock speaker in the PRRI (Jensen C10R) will fizz with distortion. A Weber 10F150T will sound amazing clean and distorted.
3. No, it will not sound boxy with a 10" speaker.

I highly recommend the Princeton Reverb. It's the best small/light/portable combo I have ever owned or played through, and gets great tones at bedroom and smaller gig volume levels. Fantastic amp! Some people like the non-reverb version, but to me, the PR is a better amp overall (more gain if desired; fantastic reverb).

 

[vds5000]

Giving serious consideration to selling my HRDlx and buying a SF Princeton NR. For the stuff I do, it should have plenty of volume (I'm usually mic'ed anyway). The Princeton will certainly be lighter and smaller. Since I can't find one nearby to try out though, TGP is my only hope of knowing:
1) Will the cleans be equal to or better than my HRDlx?
2) Will it fizz with some distortion pedals like my HRDlx? If so, can I swap to a speaker that won't fizz and will still give me classic Fender cleans?
3) Will it sound as boxy as a Blues Jr? I've already passed on that amp for that reason.
Any help would be much appreciated. Merry Christmas!

I've owned a HR Deluxe in the past and I currently own a SF Princeton. So, my opinion on your questions:

1.) The cleans on the Princeton will be as good (if not better) than the HRD.
2.) I haven't noticed any 'fizz'. I use a TS-9 with my Princeton and it sounds exceptional.
3.) The Princeton shouldn't sound boxy at all. I was apprehensive at first, since the Princeton is a 1x10, and I've always used 12's, but absolutely no issues at all with the 10.

 

[wespants]

So far sounds good. I've heard about lots of spkr options for the Princeton, and the Weber you mentioned is always a frontrunner. Glad the P isn't boxy; I also have a Mesa Rocket Reverb 1x10 (22w) and I find it slightly boxy, but nothing like the Bjr. The Mesa is killer by the way in the drive department and makes me want to forget Fender altogether but I keep going back to my HRDlx for cleans. Regarding the response about the TS9 through the Princeton, I find these type of pedals to also work very well in the HRD, it is the higher gain ones that are fizzy. Really wanting something to take my Dano CC Distortion, or something similar (Crunch Box, BSIAB II, etc). Also tried an EHX English Muff'n through the HRD, and found again that high gain is just terrible fizz, even with the treble to 0 on the pedal. It sounds like a speaker swap in the Princeton (or HRD for that matter) is the answer. Is it that easy? Thanks again for the help thus far!

 

[Lance]

I did have a 67' BFPR for a while. Had a 12" Tone Tubby San Rafael 25 in it, and it definitely preferred TS type pedals. I tried a Tonebone Hot British into it, and it got more squishy than a Tom Scholz Rockman. I always ran mine below 5, because I didn't care that much for the natural breakup. So, sometimes I would get buried by drums and bass but overall it had the best sounding cleans of any Fender I've ever played through. I'm sure that it having all NOS tubes was a key factor there, but I never swapped 'em out to A/B it.

 

[DEMENTED]

I had a '73 SFPR that I ran a Boss Metal Zone into without fizziness but I did swap the speaker to a Celestion.

 

[go7]

Just my opinion... The Princeton is light years ahead of a HRD. The clean of a Princeton is just a beautiful thing. Many have tried [owned Fargens etc.] Nothing has the shimmer as the original. Takes a pedal very well. I think one of the best qualities of the Princeton is it`s ability to be small and light and deliver a tone that has none of the boxy sound. It is IMHO a great amp that has stood the time test and still is unbeatable at the size.
Good luck and enjoy!

 

[dividedsky]

I had a HRDx before getting my PR. Actually had a few between those but I'm very familiar with the HRDx.

1) In my opinion the cleans are way better.
2) My HRDx sounded great with everything distortion I threw at it. My Princeton Reverb seems to be a lot more picky.
3) It sounds boxy when compared to an amp in a larger cab with a bigger speaker but it does not sound boxy on it's own like the Blues Jr.

 

[B_of_H]

i'm not sure I agree that the princetons have a 'better' clean sound or take pedals as well.

the hrdx is more articulate in the high end or upper mids, deeper sounding, tighter bass and more open/less compressed.

when you push a thick overdrive pedal into a princeton the high end gets mushy/fizzy real fast and the low end flabs out.

I guess it depends on what style of music and what you want.

 

[PatrickE_FenderADV]

Can someone please tell me what "boxy" means? I've heard this term ALL over TGP in regards to BJr's and others. I mean... aren't ALL amps in a box of some sort???

 

[PUMPHOUSE]

Can someone please tell me what "boxy" means? I've heard this term ALL over TGP in regards to BJr's and others. I mean... aren't ALL amps in a box of some sort???

There is a boost around the 300 htz range of the frequency spectrum

 

[Marble]

^ causing a muddy low-midrange sound. Blues Jrs are great though, you can counter act that boxyness

 

[wespants]

Phishmarisol and B of H above may have confirmed a suspicion I had. I've suspected that whatever the elments are that make the HRDlx cleans good are the same factors that make it fizzy and loose with heavy overdrive or distortion. And if the Princeton is even better at cleans, then it may well be worse with the fizziness and looseness when pushed with higher gain pedals. Here is what I want (and what a lot of others do I guess): Chimey bright cleans that will sound great with chorus in the same amp that can nail some bluesy Clapton tones all the way to early Van Halen. I don't mind feeding it whatever pedals are necessary and avoiding amps drive if that is what it takes, but I need the amp to take the pedals. For example, I can feed my CC Dist into my Mesa and get it to sound like a cranked british amp (not exactly or course, but you can tell that is what it is trying to imitate). If I feed the same pedal to my HRDlx, it sounds like a cross between a tin can with 10-12 bees in it mixed equally with a glass with several Alka-Seltzers dropped in. YMMV of course, but that is what my rig reminds me of. I think the problem was worse with the respected (and expensive!) EHX English Muff'n. Will the speaker swap fix the issue Phishmarisol and B of H speak of? Phish and B: did your Princetons have stock speakers?

 

[suhrbrutal]

Princetons are great clean amps, that are consistently good. I modded the ones I had for a 12" speaker. For blues, rock, or copuntry, it is one of the best for recording gigs. Takes pedals like no ther. I did a Death Metal demo for a band with a D.A.M. Mk II in front of a Princeton, that was super brutal.

 

[dividedsky]

I've had a few different speakers in my Princeton. I thought the Eminence Ragin Cajun sounded nice and took pedals great. Speakers make a HUGE difference in how a gain pedal sounds. I now have a Weber 10F150T in there which has slightly nicer cleans (to me) than the Ragin Cajun but it has more high end so pedals do get fizzy sometimes. The stock speaker is super bright though and harsh with OD pedals.

 

[coldfingaz]

My SF Princeton Reverb has amazing cleans. Much better than a HRDx or Blues Jr., IMO.

Takes pedals very well in my experience. You mentioned wanting chime so I'd suggest possibly a 10" Red Fang. I've considered it, but I already have an older Jensen blue alnico that's been pretty good so far... though I've run my PR through a 1x12 with a Red Fang & it sounds great. If $ is no object, I'd have to think a 10" Celestion Gold would sound pretty awesome too.

Love these amps, and they're still undervalued especially given how close they are to BF specs.

 

[wespants]

Has anyone sucessfully gotten a good EVH or bluesy Claptonesque tone using any pedal/speaker combination in a Princeton? Hate to say bye to my HRDlx and be stuck in the same boat with another amp. I have found that the HRDlx will also take a Metal Zone without fizz and ironically the Marshall GV2 and BB2 work pretty well. No fizz, but. Maybe not the best tone in these pedals (although not shabby).

 

[jay42]

A buddy of mine has the SF he bought new. He insists on playing jazzy stuff with lots of bass. That's the one thing a stock PR doesn't handle. I replaced the original pos speaker and that helped, but it's not like a DR...it's easy to rattle the entire box if you set the bass half way up. His baffle is dado'd in, otherwise, I would have put a 12" in it.

 

[jlagrassa]

The HRDx I think has a very good clean channel, try upgrading the speaker first if you find you get fizz with some pedals, I certainly don't hear it with mine. I use a Emi private Jack speaker and some pedals it sounds pretty dam good with no fizzy high end!
Never tried the Princeton so I can't make a comment about that amp for a comparison!

 

[wespants]

I had considered the Private Jack for my HRD, along with some other mods. But then I decided I may go with the Princeton instead and then swap the speaker in it. I still don't know what to do. I would really like the lower weight and escalating value of a vintage SFP, but for a workhorse the HRD is hard to beat! What high gain (non-TS) pedals have you guys had good luck with in either of these amps?