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Is it correct when comparing Klon to a TS...

billyg121

Silver Supporting Member
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5,311
To say, that a TS bumps a higher freq mid range, and that the Klon bumps a lower mid? Both cut equally well but the Klon bump is simply fatter? Or am I way off base with that explanation ?
 
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1,454
Not way off, but not quite precise either. The Klon circuit boosts mids in roughly the 500-800Hz range, with 800 being the middle of the mid range, but it also provides a collective effect that is akin to a slight envelope filtering, not just typical boost. That's why you get just a touch of that vocal 'aww' sound with it. The TS is a more typical boost in the upper mids centered about 1 to 3kHz.
 

groovington

Member
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2,852
When I first got the AF1 (klone) I compared it to my '81 TS808 and found their voicings to be very much the same, but the AF1 sounded just slightly better most of the time, and I'd liken that to it's sounding just ever so slightly fatter. But I gotta say that in some situations, that slightly thinner sound of that tubescreamer works just perfectly! I've since gotten the KTR pedal, and never did a comparison with the TS808...so maybe my comment isn't completely relevant either.
 

Fireball XL5

Silver Supporting Member
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3,000
I own an original Klon and two AM modded Tubescreamers and for the most part I tend to agree with your voicing assessment. Very similar tone with the Klon having a slightly lower mid frequency bump.

That said, I can't say for certain that this voicing difference will always translate into a fatter tone though an already working tube amp (??) as there are times - depending upon guitar & pickup selection/amp & it's setting - when I find the the Tubscreamer's voicing to translate into what could subjectively be called a fatter tone.

I think the voicing of the TS cuts a bit better as well.
 

billyg121

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,311
Thanks guys..I'm actually selling my AM 808, because I'm finding very similar qualities in my Soul Food. I'm now thinking I might regret selling it. Plugged it in the other day and was thinking that nothing cuts quite like that 808.
 

MilwMark

Member
Messages
2,784
Not way off, but not quite precise either. The Klon circuit boosts mids in roughly the 500-800Hz range, with 800 being the middle of the mid range, but it also provides a collective effect that is akin to a slight envelope filtering, not just typical boost. That's why you get just a touch of that vocal 'aww' sound with it. The TS is a more typical boost in the upper mids centered about 1 to 3kHz.
I don't know what envelope filtering is. is the slight "envelope"-filtering some of the magic that some folks find in the Klon/Klone sound and feel? Note, not mocking the "magic". I'm one who believes that an accurate Klone is in fact "magic" (and also that you don't need an original unit to achieve it, but that's a different story). Solved what I was searching for and not finding in my live rig. Volume-knob rider here, and it seems many who love the Klon/Klone fall into that camp (leave it on all the time and ride the volume knob). The way it reacts to that playing style is magic (and unique) to me.
 
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1,454
Sorry, man, I don't really talk in terms of "magic", "mojo", or whatever other je ne sais quois, and I can't speak for what others mean when they use those kinds of terms. Envelope filtering uses signal amplitude to sweep a resonance peak filter through the range of frequencies of that signal. The most familiar one might be the auto-wah, where the resonance peak moves to higher frequencies as note volume peaks and vice versa. A wah pedal uses the rocker switch of the pedal to control the filter sweep. A cocked wah is a situation in which the filter is stopped at a particular point in the sweep range. It was common for a period to cock the wah at @ 800Hz to give a very pronounced vocal-like 'aww' sound as an effect for lead playing.

The Centaur circuit (and thus the Soul Food and other Klones) doesn't give a full-on envelope filter effect, but the sound is reminiscent of a somewhat milder version of one, with a very mild but detectable 'aww' character as the gain is dialed up.
 

MilwMark

Member
Messages
2,784
Sorry, man, I don't really talk in terms of "magic", "mojo", or whatever other je ne sais quois, and I can't speak for what others mean when they use those kinds of terms. Envelope filtering uses signal amplitude to sweep a resonance peak filter through the range of frequencies of that signal. The most familiar one might be the auto-wah, where the resonance peak moves to higher frequencies as note volume peaks and vice versa. A wah pedal uses the rocker switch of the pedal to control the filter sweep. A cocked wah is a situation in which the filter is stopped at a particular point in the sweep range. It was common for a period to cock the wah at @ 800Hz to give a very pronounced vocal-like 'aww' sound as an effect for lead playing.

The Centaur circuit (and thus the Soul Food and other Klones) doesn't give a full-on envelope filter effect, but the sound is reminiscent of a somewhat milder version of one, with a very mild but detectable 'aww' character as the gain is dialed up.
Thanks. Me neither. That's why I try to figure out what the actual sonic qualities are that distinguish pedals that are unique (a camp I put the Klon in).
 
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1,454
If you're referring to the article author's spectrograph showing a peak at 440Hz, it needs to be understood that 440Hz is the frequency of the reference tone that he fed into the unit. IOW, the fundamental was 440Hz, so one would expect that the unit would faithfully reproduce that tone as a singularly high-value spike on the graph. A Tubescreamer doesn't eliminate the fundamental tone any more than one would expect to hear a pitch change from adjusting the sliders on a graphic EQ. The TS circuit produces a very well-known mid bump in the 1 to 3kHz range not by changing the resonant peak of the fundamental (a pitch shifter would be necessary for that), but by changing the emphasis on the resulting harmonic content.
 






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