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Is The Catalinbread Talisman Still The Best Plate Verb In Pedal?

jrockbridge

Member
Messages
4,671
It’s great sounding pedal. Wish it worked well with effects loops.

If I had to choose between it and the Ventris I’d take the Ventris.
I have a VanAmps Solemate real spring reverb pedal. It sounds great in front of an amp, adds shimmer and sparkle. Beats every digital spring sim I’ve ever tried. But, if you place it within the loop of any amp, the magic disappears. It makes me wonder if the Solemate was designed specifically to sound best in front of an amp and that’s why it loses something in the loop.

Perhaps, the Talisman is similar, designed to work out front. And, therefore, loses the magic in the loop.

Digital sims seem to work best inside an amp loop. Many analog fx pedals seem to lose something in the loop and work better out front. Could it be that some of these analog circuits were designed before amp loops became more common within amps?

Amp loops were more common when the Talisman was designed. Same with the Solemate. But, perhaps the designers prefer old amps that do not have loops.
 

jrockbridge

Member
Messages
4,671
Isn't the Talisman digital?
Yes. Good point. If the Talisman is digital but does not work well in an amp loop that would seem to disprove my hypothesis that digital pedals work well within amp loops.

My BED is part digital. It seems to work well out front and in a loop.

Lots of my digital sim pedals work better in the loop of an amp IMO. But, I guess it's a bad idea to generalize with pedal circuits.
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
40,304
This is exactly how I run mine and it works flawlessly. What do you mean by "doesn't work"?
I had a Google, and basically it's because the Talisman doesn't play nice with a line level signal.

I have 2 questions about that:

  • Doesn't the Power Station have a switch that changes the signal going from the effects send?
  • What if you have another pedal before the Talisman in the loop (eg. effects send > delay pedal > Talisman > effects return)?
 
Messages
175
I had a Google, and basically it's because the Talisman doesn't play nice with a line level signal.

I have 2 questions about that:

  • Doesn't the Power Station have a switch that changes the signal going from the effects send?
  • What if you have another pedal before the Talisman in the loop (eg. effects send > delay pedal > Talisman > effects return)?
It does have a switch and I have mine set to low when using stomp boxes.

I run some combination of a Digitech Luxe, MXR Flanger, and a Mini Vent in the loop before the Talisman. I've never experienced any issues with this setup.
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
40,304
The only other pedal I run in the loop is a Digitech Luxe and that's before the Talisman. I've never experienced any issues with this setup.
And that's one thing that I wonder about.

Is having another pedal before the Talisman taking the brunt of the signal, thus those that run that setup don't have the issue that those who run just the Talisman in the loop have?
 
Messages
175
And that's one thing that I wonder about.

Is having another pedal before the Talisman taking the brunt of the signal, thus those that run that setup don't have the issue that those who run just the Talisman in the loop have?
I edited my post but I'm going to say that's not the case as I've run just the Talisman by itself with no problems. I wonder if it's people not setting the fx loop signal button correctly.
 

lv

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,015
I used the Talisman for years and after a/b'ing with the source audio collider ended up keeping the collider. Can sound almost identical to the Talisman but can do other sounds, and can do stereo.
 

rsmith601

Vendor
Messages
6,476
One way to tell if your pedal plate reverb really sounds like a real plate reverb:

  • Time to zero (full damper)
  • Mix to full wet (no dry signal)
  • Add some pre-delay if you have it. It's not critical, but it can isolate the response from the action.

Slap the strings and palm mute to create a single clear "thud". What you should hear from the amp is a nice clean single thud delayed by however much pre-delay is added. Many plate models in pedals cannot do this without exposing harsh digital artifacts and imperfections in the correct modelling of the plate reverb characteristics.
 
Last edited:

rjaneshek

Member
Messages
426
This is exactly how I run mine and it works flawlessly. What do you mean by "doesn't work"?
This is exactly how I use mine (power station’s loop) and it works flawlessly. It is last in the chain of a few pedals in the loop. Don‘t know if I’ve tried it alone in the loop.
 

Gretsch47

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,124
There is something to be said for "simple". The Talisman is simple and sounds fantastic. Personally, I don't need a lot of options, I find something that I like, that works and leave it at that with minor setting changes. The Talisman works with a wide range of gain, which is pretty cool.
 

jrockbridge

Member
Messages
4,671
It’s good to know that the Talisman can work well in the loop of a Power Station. I own a PS2.

One way to tell if your pedal plate reverb really sounds like a real plate reverb:

  • Time to zero (full damper)
  • Mix to full wet (no dry signal)
  • Add some pre-delay if you have it. It's not critical, but it can isolate the response from the action.

Slap the strings and palm mute to create a single clear "thud". What you should hear from the amp is a nice clean single thud delayed by however much pre-delay is added. Many plate models in pedals cannot do this without exposing harsh digital artifacts and imperfections in the correct modelling of the plate reverb characteristics.
Thanks for that information. I’m going to try that with the plate sims that I currently own.

Do the Source Audio plate sims pass this test? I’m guessing the answer is, ‘yes.’

I do recall reading information about the challenges faced by SA in creating a realistic spring reverb. Seems like y’all went a few extra miles with your spring sim for the Ventris.
 




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