Is the MAVEN PEAL 'variable wattage' idea the correct fundamental direction to go?

TRIODEROB

Senior Member
Messages
2,342
Most amps are clones or "rehashing" of old ideas.
the tweed amps went into overdrive as a result of
the simple front end designs of the times, 5y3 tubes,
cathode bias etc.....

now what if cloning these is the wrong direction to go,
as we now can design from the ground up?

what if Is the MAVEN PEAL 'variable wattage' idea is the correct fundamental direction to go and design effort in that direction
would pay off with much more useful designs than
just cranking out clones because they dont require
much design skill?

what does the variable wattage idea have to offer?

:confused:
 

trisonic

Member
Messages
13,156
You really have to:

1. Play one

or

2. Get the NYCTF DVD.

The Maven Peal works and David Z. is a great guy.

Best, Pete.
 

908SSP

Member
Messages
5,801
I think your are asking two different questions. I have no doubts that the world would be a better place if every single amp had variable wattage and sag.

I also have not doubts that no two amps would sound any more alike then they do know. Wattage control and sag don't change the tone that is what makes the technology so successful in my opinion.

Maven Peal has chosen to mimic sounds made popular by some of the best vintage amp. My Ganesha sounds like a Marshall, set up like mine is now a Plexi. The other models more closely resemble a tweed or a twisted el84 tweed.

But if every amp had wattage control the attenuator market would be dead except for use on vintage gear ;)
 

GuitarNorton

Member
Messages
1,708
What Alex said and if they all had sag and wattage controls you wouldn't need one amp for low volume bedroom levels and another for stage volume, because you have it all in one amp.
 

Scottone

Member
Messages
1,522
I've never heard the Maven Peal, but I find the "power scale" on my London Power Studio amp to be a very useful feature...it's really great to be able to dial in just the right amount of power amp breakup at any volume.

In fact, I like it so much that I've ordered a Stephenson LJ-15 as a more grab-and-go alternative to my London Power Studio amp/Sustainer pre-amp combination.

Would sure like the opportunity to hear a Maven Peal as well...

Realistically though, the modelling amps are the most interesting design direction. These will eventually make tube amps obsolete...I think within 5 years or less (no flames please:D )
 

r9player

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,823
I really like the wattage control. Much better then using a Hotplate (at least for my purposes and to my ear)
I am waiting on a Stephenson LJ-15 to see how power scaling measures up.
All in all I've tried several amps that have Master volume or power output set ups.

The Alessandro was pretty good, but wattage control changed the character quite a bit and required a lot of adjustments to get my preferred tone at various wattage outputs.

Besides that most "master" volumes seem to be more of an interactive volume switch with the regular volume impacting headroom more so then final volume.

I think there is a place and an application for both sides of the spectrum power scale/wattage control and amps that are Tweed/Marshall/Trainwreck etc.

Personally I very much enjoy the wide variety of tone in various packages, and obviously the fact that the market is so big .. means there is no one amp for all people, even if Maven Peal and other (easily swap tube) type amps try to cover a wider range of tone.

I imagine wattage control and power scaling will become more and more proliferate.
But besides that I think we'll continue to have quality classic reproductions.
I certainly look forward to the new tones amp makers out there will come up with.
 

drbob1

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
26,564
I don't think wattage and sag controls will take over the world for two reasons:
1. They're not cheap-when you add a feedback controlled power supply onto a $5k boutique amp, you're talking serious money:eek:
2. There's some aspects of power supply/tube interaction that would be really hard to reproduce-like the ghost notes in an AC30 at high volume.
 

DavidB

Member
Messages
52
Originally posted by TRIODEROB
Is the MAVEN PEAL 'variable wattage' idea the correct fundamental direction to go?
In my humble opinion, yes. I have two Ganeshas. With the wattage turned down, they still have the depth of a 100 watt amp, dialed down to merely loud. I am looking forward to hearing the DZ44 I have on order.
 

MikeyG

Supporting Member
Messages
11,856
Yeah, don't really get the question. You can apply the wattage/sag to whatever amp design you choose. MP chooses the old standards as their platform, Plexi, Tweed, etc.

I think David tried to market the sag/wattage circuit to amp builders, as an add-on, but for whatever reason, it didn't catch on.

After hearing the Ganesha and what it can do for a 100 watt (i.e. unbearably loud) amp, I would put this setup in all of my amps, if I could.

The wattage control on the Ganesha retains *ALL* the tone down to 3. My guess is that the only reason it can't retain it lower than that is a speaker issue, not the circuit (i.e., the speaker is not being pushed hard enough to sound the same).

I'm a big believer, and if he does a Hiwatt, as he's hinted, I'm in ....
 

Ben Furman

Supporting Member
Messages
2,752
You can currently buy one of Kevin O'Connor's "Power Scaling" kits for less than $200 - not really any more expensive than an attenuator.
 

VaughnC

Supporting Member
Messages
17,670
While power scaling & speaker attenuators certainly have their place, in a gigging scenario there's just something about a good NMV tube amp pushing a good speaker with no gimmics that makes the electric guitar sound its best....IMHO!
 

MikeyG

Supporting Member
Messages
11,856
Yeah, but don't you play blues through your Komet?? So you don't need to push that amp real hard. We're talking people that want Plexi tone at less than half the volume. When was the last time you saw a Plexi anywhere but an arena stage??
 

trisonic

Member
Messages
13,156
Originally posted by VaughnC
While power scaling & speaker attenuators certainly have their place, in a gigging scenario there's just something about a good NMV tube amp pushing a good speaker with no gimmics that makes the electric guitar sound its best....IMHO!
Vaughn,

In a gigging scenario the Maven Peal would work perfectly, not many places these days can you wind up a Plexi Marshall. To my old ears the Maven Peal system is streets ahead tonewise from a simple attenuator. Perfect for blending with the rest of the band but keeping "your" essential tone - I should point out that I am a big fan of the KISS principal as it relates to guitar amps too.

Best, Pete.
 

mainsale

Member
Messages
1,695
After fooling aroud with attenuators, Maven Peal became the answer for me. i own a Tuskadaro and have a DZ44-6V6 on order. They are wonderful inventions! Tone to the Bone, as well!
 

r9player

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,823
Well I have had the Maven Peals they are awesome.
Had a Tusk and the one I miss the most a Zeeta (which was perfect for me, but bonehead me traded it)
Getting a Stephenson LJ-15 which has Power Scalling so it'll be a nice comparison. Will post when .. ever .. it comes in.
 

Scottone

Member
Messages
1,522
Originally posted by Maven Peal


I agree that the future of amps is in modelling. The problem with modelling today is that it is all digital. The Sag Circuit's analog design is a perfect compliment to this currently harsh sounding technology.

I don't agree that the problem is that the solution is all digital, but that the implementation of the technolgy is not up to snuff yet. It may take a couple more design generations to get there, or it may not happen in my lifetime:) I equate this to the sound of CDs...to me they just don't stand up to a good record on a nice turntable. A lot of the issue in that case is not that they are digital, but because they are sampled at too low a rate (slightly above the Nyquist mininum)

In the meantime, your thoughts of a hybrid solution are interesting. If the response of several classic pre-amps (and effects) could be modelled and coupled to a tube poweramp with adjustable wattage, sag, and feedback it could make for a cool amp.

Maybe you should have a chat with the Line6 folks:D
 

MikeyG

Supporting Member
Messages
11,856
Originally posted by Scottone
In the meantime, your thoughts of a hybrid solution are interesting. If the response of several classic pre-amps (and effects) could be modelled and coupled to a tube poweramp with adjustable wattage, sag, and feedback it could make for a cool amp.
Now you're talkin'!
 

grantster

Member
Messages
356
I have only used the power scaled amps. I have played thru Marshalls, blackface bassman, and a couple of other amps that have been modded with power scaling. Way better sounding than attenuators in my opinion. In addition it saves your power tubes where as attenuators are hard on tubes. The downside is it would be expensive do I found it neat to play a 100 watt Marshall cranked, but at volume of a television. I have also ordered a Stephenson LJ-15 amp. I have also played thru a couple of his amps so I know what they sound like. It would be great to see some of the boutique guys try it in there amps. It is not a gimmick, and it is safe, unlike some of the other garbage that I have read on this site. Don't knock it until you try it!

Grant
 




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