Is there a 5F6A Bassman type amp with effects loop and reverb?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by StompBoxBlues, Jul 6, 2006.


  1. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    Subject says it all. I realize that both added can detract from the Bassman sound but still...

    And I already have a Hot Rod DeVille, but to me it doesn't equate to a Bassman with 'verb and FX loop. IT has its own sound, which I use a lot, but just wondering what else out there could do what I was asking?
     
  2. S. Hawk Ltd.

    S. Hawk Ltd. Member

    Messages:
    234
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2005
    Location:
    In the heart of the Sonoran Desert
    I've owned a Kendrick 2410 with a M-100 add on reverb and with a FX loop for a good while. A 5F6A circuit, but when the FX switch is on it acts as a gain with a level control without any pedals involved. But then, it is not a 5F6A circuit any longer. I have a Area 51 Tube Audio Designs "BMT-60" tremolo added. Its a nice amp now since I have had it rehabbed by Area 51. Dan added test points for easy biasing and a pentode/ triode switch. Real cool. May be not for everybody but I like it.
    If you can find a good one it could be a worthwhile effort.
     
  3. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    Thanks! Not a lot of responses, I would have thought there would be a lot of companies trying to get that sound, but with a few simple options.

    I know both affect the sound, and as you say, it isn't a 5F6A circuit anymore, but I thought maybe there were some where the tradeoff still made it worth it.

    Just read a review on the new (at least here) Peavey Valve King, some cool sounding features anyway (knob on back for adjusting between "class A and Class A/B)...also a loose/tight button for bass boost I think...two separate channels. Anyone try one of these out?
     
  4. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

    Messages:
    13,080
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Location:
    Scotland
    I thought the Blues Deville (not Hot-Rod) sounded a bit more like a Bassman, but it may have just been an illusion caused by the Tweed :).

    There's actually no reason you couldn't fit the Bassman RI with an FX loop - the ideal candidate would be the circuit Marshall put in their new reissues - it's an IC-buffered, level-matching loop with a hardwire bypass switch that goes between the tone stack and the phase inverter. Then you could run any offboard reverb unit in the loop. The buffering is pretty transparent, there's almost difference between having the loop bypassed (totally stock vintage circuit) and on but with nothing in it.

    (If I remember correctly it doesn't even require a special power supply, it runs from the bias winding, via a separate rectifier.)
     
  5. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    Since I know you have played/heard the Hot Rod DeVille, this is good news to me. I pretty much regret not going the little extra and trying to find a Blues DeVille (they don't make them any more for some years now, correct?) because...I know you've heard me bitch many times, bitterly, about the non-reverb control in the footswitch, and I think the drive/More drive is kinda stupid and not useable...so it sounds like the more I hear about it, the Blues DeVille would have been THE thing for me.

    Maybe I can find one out here, in Norway, see if someone would trade it for my Hot Rod DeVille....:)

    I really want to hear one after you mentioned that.
     
  6. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

    Messages:
    13,080
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Location:
    Scotland
    They've actually just reissued the Blues Deluxe/Deville (the Deville only in 4x10", but that's what you want anyway) - hopefully not 'exact', but with some of the improvements they made to the Hotrods regarding under-rated resistors and such...

    http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2232100000

    You may also get an improvement by fitting a solid-state 'tube rectifier emulator' like the Weber Copper Cap, which you can get in chassis-mount versions for amps without a tube recifier socket (a large chassis-mount resistor in the 50-ohm/50W range is pretty similar in fact).

    I'm not saying the Blues Deville sounds 'like a Bassman', but to me it did sound more like one than the Hotrod does - warmer and more complex-sounding... possibly the speakers had something to do with it as well, I believe they used Eminences rather than the Jensens in the newer amps (the reissues do according to the product listing), but I could be wrong. It's a few years since I heard one too, so I would try one first if you can...
     
  7. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    Yeah, definitely John, I understand what you're saying.
    Thanks again for reminding me about it. As for the sound,
    to me the biggest difference (and I could be wrong about this) seems to me that the bassman while "warmer" also has a TON of more clarity, just before bigtime breakup.

    Like I mentioned in another thread here, when I did play them side-by-side (not MY Bassman, which is a "clone" made by a local guy, which I think sounds WAY better even than the Bassman LTD) with an LTD, I still LIKED the Hot Rod sound for itself, but I also liked the LTD sound and it was MUCH clearer..maybe more trebly, but the bass was tight, as opposed to the HRDV which sounded "smoother" and less defined to me.

    So I definitely ought to at least try then one of the newer RI Blues DeVilles...it really sounds like it could be a great candidate for exactly what I was looking for. I already have a great Bassman, so if this fell somewhere in between a Bassman sound and a HRDV sound, but with FS for reverb and FX loop, I think that would be fantastic!

    Thanks again!
     
  8. Teleplayer

    Teleplayer Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    17,592
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Clark would do a Bassman replica with reverb. However, I don't know if he does one with an effects loop.
     
  9. Dr Rico

    Dr Rico Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    Dade County, FL
    Here's the classic Ye Olde School solution:

    Use the two channels to create an effects loop. Simply plug into the hot input of the bright channel, run a jumper from the low input of the bright channel to your outboard devices (I use an echoplex, but you could drop in reverb + the kitchen sink), then run a jumper back to the hot input of the normal channel.

    QED

    Works atreat PLUS you can EQ the effects. Mind phase!
     
  10. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    I actually tried that, and it seemed pretty cool but there is something I don't get (haven't checked the schematics though yet...)

    I may have misunderstood the connections on a bassman.

    (Note: I have to fill the spacs with "."'s or else they would keep lining up wrong to illustrate)

    I see mine like this:

    ..... (1) (2)
    ..... (1) (2)


    I thought the "(1)" input pair were "normal", and the "(2)" input pair were "bright"...

    But on top of that, am I getting you right in saying, the top 1 + 2 are
    say "Hot"...for guitars with low output, and the bottom row are "low" for humbuckers or guitars with more output?
     
  11. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

    Messages:
    13,080
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Location:
    Scotland
    Yes - each channel has a high-impedance input and a 6dB attenuated lower-impedance input, which reduces the gain and softens the tone. So there are four sounds altogether. The two inputs on the Deville are arranged the same.

    The Blues Deville does have footswitchable reverb - but not FX loop. You could get around this simply by running all the FX in the loop via a bypass-switching box, but that still leaves the signal running through the IC send and return buffers in the amp (if that bothers you). IMO this is a bit of a design mistake - if they fitted an internal relay-controlled bypass, they could also avoid using those horrible jacks which are necessary for the bypass switching because it takes the ICs out of the signal path when the Power Amp In jack is not used, which requires switching isolated from the signal path, so standard Switchcrafts won't work... and if they did that, they could make it footswitchable too.
     
  12. Tuberattler

    Tuberattler Member

    Messages:
    2,416
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Location:
    Eastern Washington in the Desert
    The Blues DeVille is a great alternative to the Bassman, I've had both and now own a new DeVille RI. The bassman has more of the old tone but doesn't really give up the good before getting to dang loud.

    The Blues DeVille can get a great bassman tone in the clean channel or maxing the master while using the gain as volume in the OD channel. The nice thing about the DeVille is you can get quite a bit more variety of tones and get them at a much more reasonable level. It doesn't hurt that it has the Emi Alnico speakers either..they do need about 10 hours of break in before they start to sound sweet..

    HTH
     
  13. RickC

    RickC Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,895
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    There's a Holland Gibb Droll over on the Emporium right now that would fit your bill; it's got reverb, not sure about a loop.

    /rick
     
  14. Killa-B

    Killa-B Member

    Messages:
    517
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Location:
    Razorback Country
    I would just find a clean used Kendrick 2410, and then send it to Kendrick to have the 3 knob reverb put in. It may cost you 2-3 hundred bucks for the reverb. The Kendrick reverb is a "side chain" style which basically means that its tone does not depend on preamp gain, and the reverb does not alter the original tone. I think it's the industry best.

    A side by side comparison of the Blues Deville and a 2410 would not be funny. The only reason to go with the BD would be money.
     
  15. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

    Messages:
    18,587
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    under the stars
    Hey, thanks guys, all of you for such good info.

    Stupid me learned a new thing about my Bassman I wasn't aware of (and that is WELL worth the price of admission...glad I started this thread, I thought I knew what the inputs were :)

    and it sounds really likely that the Blues DeVille RI is well worth checking out. Doesn't matter much about the effects loop actually since it has built-in reverb anyway...vibes I can live with on input actually.

    Thanks!
     

Share This Page