Is there a Mesa Boogie Dumble Clone?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by trpullen, Jan 11, 2008.


  1. trpullen

    trpullen Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    OK, just yankin your chain there. BUT...what Mesa head most closely has tonal similarities with the Dumb3l?
     
  2. Steve Snider

    Steve Snider Silver Supporting Member

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    Mark IIc+ (there is a bendenelli dumble type mod to add to this), Mark 1, Maverick as well to an extent.
     
  3. bilbal

    bilbal Member

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    I am just as much into the elusive Dumble tone as the next guy but I think it and we are all fortunate that some amps sound nothing at all like Dumbles!!! Mesa Boogie (for the most part) happens to be one of them IMO. Thankfully they have a sound that is all their own.

    Is anyone else growing tired of all the Dumble posts lately??? If I never read another one again in my life time it will be too soon.

    I want a Mesa Boogie because of IT'S TONE no other reason!!!!

    To the OP, I apologize if I am coming off like a douchebag. My remarks are not directed at you. I'm just sick of all the Dumble this... Dumble that... crap around here lately. If you want to have an amp that sounds like a Dumble, find a used one and spend the 30 or 40 grand and you'll have it. I am willing to bet that 30 or 40 grand that you'll still sound like you even with a Dumble behind you. I was on the Robben Ford tone quest for years and only recently gave up because I sound like "Bill" regardless of what amp, clone amp, pedal, cloned circuit, what have you. The only thing my quest brought me is outrageous charges on my credit cards that I owe. Find a guitar, a few pedals, and an amp you sound good with and feels right and stick with them. I personally am done and I am going to make the gear I have work for me. I sound pretty good with what I am left with and I'm happy some days and pissed others. It gonna be the case regardless of what amp or guitar or pedals you buy. Imagine how horrible you would feel if you bought a Dumble and still sounded like ass...

    Sorry for the rant...carry on
     
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  4. Miles

    Miles Member

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    Yeah, I could give 2 ***** about the dumble stuff I sound like me through a 10 watt SS marshall as much as I do through a Victoria or Bad Cat, so if you can find a good hi-fidelity tone that amplifies the guitar in a pleasing way, then you're as far as you need to go. Seriously, this can be found in many different places for just about any player in a reasonable price range. From there, go on a pedal hunt and find a good crunch or gain pedal and what else could you need?

    I am also not having a go at you or dumble lovers/owners but I think Boogies have their own flavor and they make some great amps. Don't get me wrong, Dumbles are a nice tone, but they are becoming more reminiscent of the "emporer's new clothes" than an actual elusive tone. If you can dial in a nice Fender or Vox to clip, then what else are you REALLY looking for?

    My personal Mesa favorites include:

    Blue Angel - I own it
    Maverick -have played it
    Tremoverb - have played it
    Lonestar Special -have played/owned it
    Express amps -have played it - these new babies sound really nice!
     
  5. trpullen

    trpullen Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    OK, I tend to agree to a point, I will always sound like me regardless of the gear. However, I have to work less hard to sound like a good me through my Orange than I did through the Budda. Why? I dunno.

    My TC Vintage Dual Distortion really has a nice feel with my Traynor YCV-20 but sounds like ass with my Orange. Why? I dunno.

    I am looking for a small format head that will do something between my Orange Clean and Uber Gain. I have played the Express and really liked them. They may be an option. I split my time between my PRSi and Fender/ESP Strats depending on my mood. The Orange/PRS really kills. The Orange/Strat combi is very good but...not as fun as the PRS there. I am just looking for some options.
     
  6. AdmiralB

    AdmiralB Silver Supporting Member

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    Boogie Mark IIs are very much 'inspired by' the ODS. In fact, if the roles were reversed (that is, Randall built the ODS and H/A built the Mark II), I'm sure Randall would have sued.

    I'm certain that the Mark II circuit came from Randall's analysis of an ODS.
     
  7. mude

    mude Supporting Member

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    I had a Maverick and a Tremoverb for years. Both really good amps IMO.

    Not exactly Dumbles of course, but cover some ground that you might like if you like those sorts of tones.

    Evan.
     
  8. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    What a surprise, a bunch of posts by people that are not interested in the subject.

    Hey! There's a thread in the pedal section where a guy's asking if the Analog Man Mini Chorus gets the SRV "Cold Shot" tone! Maybe I should go over there and post that I am so sick of that tone, and all of the SRV wannabees, and that I get my own tone. That would be helpful, and probably make me look cool and smart!
     
  9. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    In answer to the OP, IMO Mark II's are close, and Tremoverb's are the most versatile.
     
  10. Squigglefunk

    Squigglefunk Senior Member

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    if this is true... then all I can say is he took the ODS and made it sound a lot BETTER! Good for Randall.

    What makes you certain the MKII is copied from dumble and not the other way around?


     
  11. jzgtrguy

    jzgtrguy Member

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    Read the interview with Randall Smith in the Tone Quest Report. In a nut shell he's never been in a Dumble. I think he said he has seen a schematic on the net. He said (I'm not sure I remember this right) that it looked to him an awful lot like a MK I or a MK IIC. He arrived at his design independently from anything Howard had done. Good article check it out.
     
  12. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    We just went through this bad mouth Randall Smith garbage a few days ago and gave about 5 pages to it. In the whole thread, no one named a specific instance of a lawsuit (justified or not) over HIS patents that could be checked out. If there was a law suit or Cease and Desist and Smith prevailed, that is the end of the story, like it or not. Contrary to myth, you must make a significant improvement or change to an existing patent in order to be granted a new patent. All I saw were vague generalizations. If you are going to badmouth someone, you should be a bit more specific. Don't repeat some rumor you hear, you know how that goes. The guy is obviously an icon in the business and has many innovations to his credit. Anyone who takes the considerable time and money to go through the patent process gets the patent. This is the way the world turns. If you snooze, you loose.
     
  13. AdmiralB

    AdmiralB Silver Supporting Member

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    There is absolutely no requirement to reference any existing patent during the application process. If you invent something brand new, out of thin air, where nothing existed before...you are not making a "significant improvement or change to an existing patent", so are you arguing that you can't then be issued one?

    Have you ever heard of "prior art"? Or "comment periods"? When one applies for a patent, the application is published and the nation at large has a period of time to comment on the patent. If someone tries to patent something that's demonstrably NOT their invention, they can be challenged and NOT get the patent. It's not a done deal, as you propose.

    Smith has some dubious patents. Simulclass is probably the most notable (although I'm sure it's expired by now). Operating parallel tubes in different classes is discussed in electronics texts going back to the 1950s, at least. Smith is the first to apply it to a guitar amp (although as-implemented it is nothing at all as described), but if anyone had cared enough during the patent comment window, he would likely have lost based upon prior art.

    The Class A/single-ended thing on the Lone Star series is another example. Smith claims to have conceived of it while swimming (at least that's what he told Guitar Player); funny that it was described in one of Kevin O'Connor's books seven or eight years ago.

    WRT Dumble...the original Boogie was essentially a BF Fender with an extra gain stage in front. The Mark II, though, was completely different - a BF Fender with two cascaded gain stages AFTER the existing preamp. So it's not accurate to say one is an evolution of other.

    It just so happens that the ODS is also a BF Fender with two cascaded gain stages after the preamp - something AFAIK nobody had done before. The ODS predates the Mark II by some time, and Dumble was building amps for the same general clientele in the same general area. I think it highly unlikely that one didn't influence the other.

    I like Mesa amps - I own three amps currently, and they're all Mesa - but I recognize that Randall is about 70% amp builder and 30% hype salesman.
     
  14. trpullen

    trpullen Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    and the guys that are not, we have likely never heard of. Bob Taylor, Paul Reed Smith, and others are great builders who also are keen businessmen. No need to fault them for that.
     
  15. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    FYI - There is no reason to sue for a patent infringement if there is no money to be made from it. That is, if you have a guy making clones at 1 or 2 amps...your throwing good money after bad by sueing the guy.

    Now, if they are making 1000's of amps and that infringer is making money
    then hell yeah sue!

     
  16. AdmiralB

    AdmiralB Silver Supporting Member

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    If patent protection is anything like copyright and trademark law, you HAVE to pursue EVERYONE or you lose your claim.
     
  17. re-animator

    re-animator Senior Member

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    I love the mark I and mark II because their tone is so unique. Everything I hear people "love" about dumbles I find in spades with the mark series mesas.


    Imagine a dumble with more hair, more "oomph"/.... more sex.


    to me a great mesa tone has that Brassy quality, while dumbles tend to be a little more glassy. Mesa's mark I strikes me as filling the void between trumpet and sax. but much more dynamic than any other sort of gain voicing i've ever heard.
     
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  18. Squigglefunk

    Squigglefunk Senior Member

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    I've read that Randall Smith was looking to capture the essence of a sax when voicing the lead channel of a mk amp.

     
  19. sfarnell

    sfarnell Gold Supporting Member

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    Mark IIC+

    I still have mine but the Dumble I had for awhile is gone. Mine is the 60 Watt with reverb. No EQ, no Simulclass. I had other C+s with those options but my 60 Watter sounded better to my ears.

    The Dumble I had on loan for awhile was wild and hard to tame. It did have something going for it that the C+ can't do, i.e. a certain responsiveness in the OD channel, but I don't think it's necessarily better than the C+ OD. I have many "boutique amps" and none of them beats my C+ for rock and roll tone. In fact, if I use a 1X15 cab loaded with a JBL D130, the amp is a pure jazz machine.

    I've encountered skeptics who've said that the C+ sounds entirely different than a Dumble and then they play my amp. All came around to agree that the C+ can be dialed in to dumble territory.

    Unfortunately, the cost of a C+ is increasing fast. A 60 Watt version can still be had for about $2K or so, but one with EQ and Simulclass is up to about $3,500 I think.
     
  20. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Member

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    One persons "hype salesman" is anothers "marketing genius". Either way he is a successrul, rich mofo.

    :)
     

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