Is this Harmony Central now?

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by jpage, Dec 28, 2005.


  1. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    Kind of noticed more and more Agile/Orville/Epiphone threads here lately. What's up? Wasn't Harmony Central the place for discussing $400 guitars?

    Any particular reason for the mutiny from over there?
     
  2. michael.e

    michael.e Supporting Member

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    All I can say is......

    The voice of reason tends to prevail here..


    The Agile type threads will wash themselves away, in due time.

    M.E.
     
  3. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    Sure it's OK. But when overseas imports overtake quality American made instruments as the topic for discussion I will realize that it is time for me to find a board with more "refined" tastes to banter with. Not a threat nor do I harbor any illusions that anyone would care. This place never had an Agile thread before. Now they are all over the front page. I can go to the aforementioned HC board if I want to hear about putting $400 pickups in $400 guitars. I thought that's where those discussions were held. Now they are here.

    Just wondering why...
     
  4. Gary Ladd

    Gary Ladd Member

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    I was gonna say something about HC, how it's about as useful as..., but I digress ;)
     
  5. Gary Ladd

    Gary Ladd Member

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    The answer is out there, just spend a couple of minutes on the HC board...

    I think that even those that would put WCRs in an Agile can't stomach HC these days :moon
     
  6. tfunster

    tfunster Silver Supporting Member

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    Perhaps this is the wrong time to ask about a Cort guitar recommendation. :p

    I too am much rather interested in talking and reading about the high quality stuff, but It's always great to hear about someone taking an Agile and putting some replacement buckers in it and getting a guitar that rivals higher end production stuff. Hopefully the person who is reviewing something like that knows what "the good stuff" is. That said, I think we're all in the gear game here, which is ultimately our quest for TONE and FEEL (among other things), and if there's a way to achieve these things through imported non-boutique means, I'm all ears (or eyes).

    BTW, I went on the HC forum for the first time today and it way totally lame. Especially the religion and politics section. Makes me glad to be part of a forum that has high standards and respectful members.
     
  7. tonedaddy

    tonedaddy Member

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    I am here as you are here as you are me and we are
    [​IMG]

    Is there any forum with more "refined" tastes than TGP?
    :D
    Agile's have been discussed over the past 2 years here.
    Not in quantity, but the posts were there.
    I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I've never hung out on H-C, so I can't speak much about the comparisons to TGP.

    But in spite of TGP's reputation for expensive/boutique gear, discussions about excellent lower priced gear have been on here since the first days I lurked here. And for my tastes, I hope that never changes.

    I'm glad to see gear of all prices being discussed here. If there's one thing I've ALWAYS liked about TGP is that you've been able to get as much valuable, experienced discussion on excellent gear priced < $500 as you can gear priced > $2500. In fact when I originally joined, as much as I wanted to learn about boutique gear, those discussions about lower-priced gear were some of the few where I had any experience to contribute. The rest of the time I was reading and learning. And few folks dissed anyone for their budget or favored brands.

    If you're on a quest for good tone REGARDLESS of the price, TGP is as good a place to find it as anyplace on the internet.

    I've learned more about Fender Japan/Tokai/Orville/Burny/Greco/etc in the past year than I have in the past 10, and there are some folks that have been sharing that knowledge freely. I'm glad to see anyone here that wants to gain/share knowledge, regardless of the price.

    And as much as I enjoy the higher priced gear I own, if I had to sell all my gear that cost me > $500, I would still have some great sounding, favored gear.

    If there's anything that might explain what you're noticing, it's that:
    - there may not be fewer posts in total about higher priced gear than before, just more about lower priced gear
    - as boutique manufacturers have added their own forums, lots of folks interested in that brand hang/post on those forums as well as here

    I spend more time on other forums and less time here than before, but instead of reading every thread like I could years ago (when there weren't that many threads), I just scan the page and ignore the threads that don't interest me. And hopefully I'm still learning just as much.

    So you might try just scanning the pages here, too, and start checking out individual manufacturer's forums more. There are some very good ones to learn from.
     
  8. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    I guess it is what it is. Seems to me that lately I have seen more and more of the same Gibby bashers and Agile pimpers than normal. Hey, do what thou wilt, right? But I can only read so many before my eyes roll so far back into my head that my forehead grows over my scalp.
    Ever see those kids who put the $2000 wheels on thier 1986 Honda Civics??
     
  9. jpage

    jpage Silver Supporting Member

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    Oh well, I guess it's just a rant. If it were a perfect world, no manufacturers would be allowed to post either. At least Agile and Orville don't step in and start whining the second someone mentions their product.
     
  10. modRod

    modRod Member

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    perhaps it´s just me, but i am quite pleased with manufacturers posting here. i never noticed any whining.

    arndt
     
  11. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Not an unreasonable rant, though. Agile is still actively making guitars, but Orville (Gibson Japan) stopped production in the early 90's from what I know of it. I have one Korean made Epiphone LP (birdseye top), one Epi del Rey from their Custom Shop (not sure WHERE it's made, but apparently final assembly was at Gibson's Nashville plant 9 years ago, or so the story went), & two Ibanez Artists from the "golden era" (82 & 77). I don't make excuses for any of them in the tone department, or their smaller price tag beginnings.

    Every single one of those guitars has been modified from stock to achieve better tone, in most cases, gutted electronically, as I found the stock parts to suck tone, or lack proper quality/feel, or responsiveness. Most had their tuners replaced, too. That's all part of improving their usefulness, right?

    I don't think I would put down any guitar I hadn't played myself, unless there were just obvious shortcomings in the visuals, or control layout that would hinder playing it live, which is my ultimate test of any guitar.

    That's why I no longer own Explorers, Flying V's, or other types of guitars that I can't play comfortably sitting down. Although I must say the Ibanez "Rocket Roll Sr." Flying V clone I had from the 70's was so close to an original, that my luthier told me we could take one of my old Gibson amp logos (raised gold logo from the late 50's), put it on the headstock, swap out a few parts, put in PAF's and we could turn a $800 guitar into a $80K guitar real easily with a refinish and some Centralab pots.

    Of course, the wood still had to be right to do that...which I'm guessing it was. So that's why I don't bash Agiles, Epi's or other lower dollar guitars outright...you just never know where the tone is.
     
  12. michael patrick

    michael patrick Supporting Member

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    I guess I'm not one to look down my nose at something because it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I've got a vintage Marshall and as well as an amp from a boo-teek manufacturer. But then I've also got an old Bogen that I got off of eBay for $50 that with a few circuit tweaks and some new tubes just screams.

    I've got some nice axes from Gibson and Fender in my collection as well. But the guitar that is calling my name most often right now is an Agile. Sure, I swapped out the pickups and pots, but I've got less than $400 into it. Should I let it sit or sell it just because it isn't on the TGP approved list? Or should I use it to make music that makes me happy?
     
  13. Chicago Slim

    Chicago Slim Member

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    Four out of six, of my current guitars, are hand made. I'm a working musician, and band leader for a recording artist. But, I'm still afraid to post what I'm using in the Amp's and Cab's section. I still think TGP is full of gear snobs.
     
  14. jreardon

    jreardon Member

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    Completely agree. TGP is a Gear Discussion Site, and to me, that includes ALL types of equipment, regardless of price. I buy stuff because, to me, they sound and play great. Not because of some idea that to sound and play good, it has to be expensive, or hand-made in small quantities by small makers.

    To me, and many other TGPers, American guitars are overseas imports that display similar quality as guitars from Europe and the Far East.

    If you are not interested in threads about cheaper stuff, then don't read them, it's as simple as that.
     
  15. Boogs

    Boogs Member

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    Wow.

    What I like about TGP versus HC is ultimately that the focus here is consistently on GEAR, not on Pamela Anderson/football/Next Door Nikki/snack food discussions. Sure, there are more discussions on higher end stuff here, and the people here are more experienced and dedicated, but it's the lack of childishness and arguments that really defines the feel of the place.

    However, what people call "quality" is so laughably arbitrary. I'm not sure I would dare start a thread here on my new $559 Artcore AF105FNT...despite the fact that it's a set neck, well made, wonderful sounding, and beautifully finished instrument. Simply the fact that it has a certain name on the headstock, and that it's known to be manufactured in China (though Eastman's I guess are changing this perception a tad), makes it "lower quality". It's a bit of a joke, I'm afraid.

    In any case, I'm grateful for the people here who are willing to discuss (and who know) lower priced stuff. It's all I can afford for now, and I HAVE to make it work...luckily, and despite having "incorrect" brands, I think I actually do. :)
     
  16. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    Wow indeed.

    The whole argument presented here says a *lot* more about Jpage than it does about TGP.

    (Sarcasm alert!) Cork sniffers unite! Death to the unwashed who play un-boo-teek gear! (sarcasm /off)

    That's silly.

    There is no "level" of gear spoken here, there has always been a bias towards higher end gear because the bulk of folks drawn here - more for the civil and on-topic discussion - were older, more experienced players.

    There has *always* been a balance of more "mainstream" gear, though it can appear to be under the surface. From day one.

    (Humor alert!) Pull the corks from your ears, there are excellent and useful lower cost pieces of kit man!(humor /off).

    My fave distortion is a Keeley Rat. My backup amp is a Crate Powerblock. My distortion pedal that I've owned the longest is a $99 Tech 21 Double Drive (owned since 1998 or so). I own and play Line 6 Variax's and POD XT Live's onstage at the biggest shows I do. Sure I have some nicer higher end gear. (sarcasm alert!) But get real. (sarcasm /off)

    TGP is a discussion forum that is civil with no spamming and off-topic stuff not appreciated. Beyond that, it is just a discussion forum.
     
  17. mbratch

    mbratch Member

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    It's not the type of guitar that matters at TGP, it's how it is discussed. What characterizes TGP is the maturity of the discussion, not the make of the gear, where it's made, or how much it costs.

    TGP is a place to discuss any kind of gear of any quality as far as I'm concerned. If it becomes a place of snobbery where you can't even discuss your stuff unless it costs you $2,000 or more per piece, or if it's only made in USA, then it would be very narrow-minded.
     
  18. mbratch

    mbratch Member

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    One thing nice about TGP is there is no "ostrich" phenomenon of people putting their head in the sand and covering their ears and making a noise to avoid hearing discussions about what makes an inexpensive guitar what it is versus a more expensive model.

    If someone comes up with a way to invest $400 in a $400 guitar and make it just like a $2,000 guitar, I would certainly like to know what they discovered for a $1,200 savings. I would also like to know what people believe still makes that extra $1,200 worth while (and those points are there).

    That's the beauty of it at TGP. Open discussion, and real information/experience exchange about all sorts of gear helps us all learn about what makes quality gear what it is, and we can all make better choices about the gear we spend our hard-earned dollars on.
     
  19. HarryJ

    HarryJ Member

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    One of my most resonant and toneful guitars is an un popular Peavey Firenza JX. I paid $135 for it used, and a bit beat up. http://www.harryj.net/wf1.jpg I changed the pickups, funkified the wiring options etc... Feels great, Sounds great. I will go head to head with any $1000+ guitar.

    Personally I get a little extra kick out of using un-popular guitars. I really love it when some guitarist walks up to the stage saying "wow that was the most killin' tone, was that an Anderson, Suhr, Grosh, Baker, Tyler, whatever etc..." I then watch their facial expression change when I say... no, it's a Peavey, like now the tone sucked. Don't get me wrong I totally appreciate the afore mentioned instruments. I've played them... all superb craftsmen. But... I wouldn't be so quick to associate dinero with quality or lack there of. My 2 cents... well maybe 1 cent.
    I tried a students Agile and thought it was pretty damn nice.

    Harry Jacobson
    www.harryj.net
     
  20. Dajbro

    Dajbro Member

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    Personally, I don't read or post here to learn about uber-expensive boutique gear, although I'll admit it is fun to "window shop" these types of items. The reson I am here is to learn about gear (obviously), old and new and to learn from people's experiences with it, how they use it, how it interacts, pros and cons, ways to maximize ones gear, etc. There are people out there like Matte, Splatt, KRosser, and others who share their insights as guys who play for a living and have a wealth of varied experiences; builders of all types who offer insight into the making of our toys; those who play in clubs night after night and can share that experience; and yes, those who make the type of living where they can buy any piece of equipment that strikes their fancy. Where else can you get clips of Mike Miller, Scotty Anderson, Derek Bailey, and Shawn Lane? (And that's just what's on page 1 today!) I've learned about quite a few wonderful musicians from this place, GregV comes to mind.

    Me, I'm a single dad and former professional musician/educator. My money is spent raising my daughter and I don't have much to spend on equipment. Therefore, it is important to me to learn ways to maximize what I do have, and when I do spend the money, it is important to me to make the most educated decision possible. This place has been invaluable for that. So my brothers, talk about Crate, Peavey, Two-Rock, Klon, CJOD, PRS, Agile, Danelectro, Boss, Dumble, Hamer, whatever strikes your fancy. There are those of us out there who appreciate what you have to say and will put that information to good use.

    David
     

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