I've got a 65 Super that sounds great....but how do I get it to sing??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by radialaced, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. radialaced

    radialaced Member

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    Yeah, you know the drill. 65 Super Reverb, blackface tone, blackplate 6L6's, Alnico P10R's. This amps sounds very nice but.....

    How do I make it sing without turning it above 7 on the volume?

    I guess I'm just spoiled by the Fuchs. The Fuchs will sing a volumes so low that my family can sleep through it.

    But nothing can touch the Super's clean. It sure would be nice to gig with the super for a while, if I could just get it to sing and hold a note with the volume on 3 or 4.

    Anybody ever find a solution for this?

    BTW, I've tried the FDII, AC Booster and an original TS-9 to get the singing thing happening but they really change the sound of the amp in a way that I don't like.
    If I had to choose one of those three pedals to use with this Super it would be the TS-9 for sure.

    Ideas anyone? Different pre-amp tubes? On-board mid boost for my guitars?

    Thanks
     
  2. theelectic

    theelectic Guest

    Sounds like you need an attenuator - a 2 ohm Hot Plate should do you nicely :)
     
  3. Killcrop

    Killcrop Supporting Member

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    I had a Pro Reverb once that Guytron modded to have some adjustment for the negetive feedback loop. I really can't remember the details but really gave the Fender a Marshally snarl that made it sing like a bird.
     
  4. woof*

    woof* Member

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    a super's a loud animal no matter how you slice it..but yeah killer cleans. there is nothing else like fender blackface cleans. your still gonna be louder than your fuch's.. but i love a klon with my 67 super. ive tried alot of overdrives/tube screamers/fulltone etc.. but the klon is the most transparent for me. and can make your super sing at a more reasonable volume. i can get mine goin pretty well with my strat on about 4-5.

    hope this helps

    rand
     
  5. Pedro58

    Pedro58 Supporting Member

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    Guys with 100W Marshalls have the same problem. An attenuator works. So does a smaller amp.
     
  6. Norjef

    Norjef Member

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    The most transparent OD that I have with Fender black/silvers is a Keeley Phat-modded Blues Driver. Goes from "clean" boost to singing without changing gtr or amp tone much. Fulltone OCD and Blackstone MOSFET are "colorfuller".

    Also try (if you can) a Ayan "Smooth and Slim"--magic and voodoo with Black/Silverfaces.

    All the above IMHO----Jeff R.
     
  7. theelectic

    theelectic Guest

    I had one of those. It works great for its intended application, but it will actually REDUCE the overall gain of the amp slightly (if you've got the amp on 5 for a certain tone, you'll probably need to turn the amp up to 6 or 7) which may make it sing less at a particular volume setting. Or perhaps even more (depending on your ear) since it gets rid of a lot of muddiness.
     
  8. Oddos

    Oddos Member

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    I think a fuzz feeding some kind of TS type pedal works great.
     
  9. CocoTone

    CocoTone Senior Member

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    I use a Weber Mass with my Super, with excellant results.

    CT.
     
  10. mad dog

    mad dog Silver Supporting Member

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    I put 5881 tubes in mine. A little earlier breakup, and I came to prefer the sound of these. Not better, just different. The overdrive has a little softer touch. Really pretty sound. After awhile, I realized that loud and mostly clean was where this amp was at. Only on very loud stages could I turn it up enough to get lots of OD. Klon does help, but I always preferred plugging in direct.
     
  11. radialaced

    radialaced Member

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    Lots of great ideas and insight here.

    When I took the ceramic speakers out and put in Alnicos the amp broke up a lot sooner. But it's break up not singing.

    It's true, pedals help make a super sing, but even with a pedal overdriving the thing it still doesn't breath unless you turn it up.

    The 5881's sound interesting but still I would be relying on power tube and speaker break up.

    How about some 12AX7 breakup? Any suggestions for the input stage tubes, or the phase inverter.

    Oh yeah, which rectifier tube will help me here?

    Thanks
     
  12. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    A TIM or OCD would be a good match, and very transparent. I use them with my VV clone with good success, but they're not exactly the same as cranking the amp to 7.....
     
  13. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

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    Your SR will never sing like the Fuchs because the Fuchs has extra gain stages in the OD channel with a drive control and master volume. If you set your Fuchs up to the clean channel and max the master, you'll have exactly the same problem as the SR.

    Try a 5V4 or 5U4 for the rectifier to get some more sag. Be careful about using 5881's if they are the "real" ones. They can't handle the typical plate voltage of a SR. (The Sovteks are not real 5881's).

    Simple reversable mods would be to open the negative feedback loop and open the tremelo intensity pot connection. You can also remove the V1 tube if you don't use the normal channel. Use low efficiency speakers so you can turn the amp up more.

    After that, it's pedals and attenuators. The Tim and Zen get as close to a cranked tube amp as anything I've heard and go especially well with BF amps.
     
  14. riverastoasters

    riverastoasters Member

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    There are a couple amps I know where attenuators don't really get you much benefit. Dual Professional, and Super Reverb. My Super Reverb is a transition Super (early with the drip edge), in case that matters.

    The attenuator lets the Super go less loud, but still it's not getting huge breakup or anything. It's a subtle change towards less clean.
     
  15. MojoHand

    MojoHand Supporting Member

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    Since you like Tube Screamers, you might try something like this: Combine the TS with a clean boost and/or a compressor to push/distort/compress the preamp, then use mild attenuation (-4 db) to tame the output while pushing the power tubes a little. If done with restraint, this approach won't change your tone too much and will sound and feel similar to a cranked amp (there is no real substitute).

    It's more than just distortion. When a vintage amp like a blackface Fender is turned up loud, it distorts, compresses, sags, and sustains. Distortion pedals, compressors, and attenuators were all originally designed to reproduce these characteristics at lower volume. Obviously, they are an imperfect solution, but I've found that combining effects and using them in moderation works better than using any single effect in isolation.

    My $.02
     
  16. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Member

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    Here's some ideas:

    1. A Hermida Zendrive will make your Super sound more like the Fuchs OD than anything else out there. In fact this is the exact same combo that 'ol Robben Ford has been seen with (although he also uses twins)

    2. Mod the amp for more gain AND use an attenuator AND a boost pedal (clean boost or something like the Timmy, or Barber LTD) for lead.

    --Removing the 1st preamp tube increase gain to the vibrato channel

    --disconnecting the vibrato circuit increases gain. This can be done by replacing the vibrato pot with one that has a built in switch. When you turn the vibrato all the way down it clicks and defeats the circuit.

    --Using high gain 12ax7's in all positions will increase preamp and Phase Inverter gain

    --Raise the value of the mid pot from 10 to 25k. With the mid pot dimed you will have significantly more gain

    --have your tech mod the amp to switch between fixed bias (BF amps) and cathode bias (tweed amps). In cathode bias mode you will have less output power and earlier breakup. The tone will be slightly different as well

    --Install a Negative feedback pot (AKA soul control) where the ext speaker jack is. This allows you to adjust NFB on the fly. More FB gives you a cleaner tone, less FB gives you a rawer tone. The effect is subtle but can be useful.

    --You can do most of these mods and more (like adjusting the tone stack) to the useless normal channel and use an A/B switch to go from clean to dirty.

    All of these mods are completey reversible
     

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