Joe bonamassa on Jimmy page

[JohnnyBGoode]

Nobody is going to sound good if the substitute drummer is clueless as to the structure of the tunes, the verses, choruses and rhythms. I just think musicians should get that. People are judging it like picky consumers and not fellow players IMO. It doesn't mean Page sucks and can't play. That was probably one of the worst nights of his life.

I heard live versions of Stairway where he also played badly, with Bonham.
EVH said tgat he loved Page's studio work but that he thought that live the guy played like a two year old. So it was always an issue...
Blaming a drummer is just a lame excuse.

 

[jimijimmyjeffy]

First, you have no idea how upset Page was, let alone in a position to compare it to the balance of his life. You would have walked off...awesome...but you aren't Jimmy Page are you? You should take off the fan boy glasses for a bit...step back and realize that Page just played poorly that night. As far as judging him as a guitar player? Why would I do that...he has a history of some great recorded performances. He also, sadly, has a fairly long track record of poor live performances due to substance abuse issues. All we really know from that night is that it was a trainwreck. I am also curious about one thing...Collins is a world class drummer...why would he "clearly sabotage" the gig? Something personal I don't know about?

Page doesn't keep his feelings on that incident secret, though he tries to be polite. What the heck does me not being Jimmy Page have to do with anything? Typical TGP.

I am hopefully thinking like a dude who supports my fellow players, not a fanboi. That is how I try to be in all conversations about musicians, famous, unknown or learning. If its Joe B, same thing. I'm going to defend him too. I've been in a hundred arguments defending various musicians from haters here.

I heard live versions of Stairway where he also played badly, with Bonham.
EVH said tgat he loved Page's studio work but that he thought that live the guy played like a two year old. So it was always an issue...
Blaming a drummer is just a lame excuse.

BS. Now you are getting into dissing him overall, changing the topic, which is just typical Page hate. I simply disagree with you and Shreddy Van Wailin. He could be bad when drunk and he could be great when not. Overall he was a great player. He wasn't a shredder like Eddie, but Page did every bit as much for guitar and rock music in general, probably more. People at TGP evaluate him like he's supposed to be an olympic scale player, and that's just not him. I was not evaluating his overall live history, but there is a never ending stream of Page haters ready to rehash every cliche about him. I just know what I hear.

Dude is a recovering addict who is lucky to be alive. I respect that and don't judge him for that like some of you who think alcoholism is totally the fault of the drunk person, a view I do not agree with. It doesn't change his talent. But Jimmy Page chugged an entire full bottle of Black Jack Daniels right in front of me during a gig. And beer. None of you could play like that. Nor could your heroes. It was what it was.

To me I'm being realistic and you are being "lame", so right back at you.

Phil Collins ruined that show in a most unprofessional way. And I'm a huge Phil Collins fan. He did not know the songs, flat out. That is a deal breaker in any situation, but especially a band where the instrumental aspect is so critical, rather than just the blues jams Phil also did at the time. Phil was overly publicity seeking and tried to sit in with everybody in those days, by his own admission. That show would have been much better with a professional drummer.

 

[stephen sawall]

There is 983 bootlegs of them live available ....anyone want to post one or a particular song ?

I listened to a few hundred of them. All of them have plenty of improvised material.

 

[Bokar]

Phil Collins was not at fault, Page and Plant were not interested in rehearsing beforehand and on top of that Page was drunk and high on the day of concert. If you look at the recording you can at times see even Plant is disgusted/embarassed by Page's playing.

Collins is a Bonham fan and I'm sure that was not his first run at these songs.

 

[stephen sawall]

The somewhat general consensus involving intoxicants is interesting....literal assumptions exhumed.

 

[Tstyle]

I think Page was an mediocre player, who was incredibly lucky. Right place, right time. Ya, I said it! I think Joe B. and most of you, are being polite to your hero. Heroin doesn't do much for your chops either.

 

[leftygeetar]

sloppyness is a choice and a sound. Think of The Stones

 

[andybaylor]

When I saw Page/Plant, his performance was impeccable.

 

[Tidbit]

That train wreck can't be laid at Collins feet...

Some of it can. It was ill advised and made the rhythm section all loosey goosey, more like the Grateful Dead on a bad acid trip than Led Zeppelin. That's the last thing some poor addict needs on a scorching hot summer day with an out of tune guitar.

I've played with drummers who didn't know the changes (or the beat). It has never gone well.

 

[Sirloin]

*wishes Joe B was sloppier and edgier*

 

[Ken Whisler]

I sat less than 40 feet from Page and his plexis when his Outrider tour came through town. He was drenched in sweat well before the 1st tune was over, and throughout the show there was a constant 4-6” bead of drool hanging off his chin. Every time a bead of drool fell off, another instantly took its place. The rest of the band, which included a young Jason Bonham, were dry as a bone. Kinda gave me the impression something else was in control. I didn’t want to go. I had cut my teeth on those first 4 albums, but I was firmly in the “Page is sloppy live” camp. But a friend had an extra ticket and talked me into going. So glad I went. Page was on his game that night. Or maybe it was whatever was pulling his strings? It left me with the understanding that live, Page is constantly reaching and sometimes he missed. On that night he nailed it. Sure did not want to be his guitar tech that night. Another bud snuck in a camera:

 

[John Hurtt]

Page doesn't keep his feelings on that incident secret, though he tries to be polite. WTF does me not being Jimmy Page have to do with anything? Typical TGP.

I am hopefully thinking like a dude who supports my fellow players, not a fanboi. That is how I try to be in all conversations about musicians, famous, unknown or learning. If its Joe B, same thing. I'm going to defend him too. I've been in a hundred arguments defending various musicians from haters here.
BS. Now you are getting into dissing him overall, changing the topic, which is just typical Page hate. I simply disagree with you and Shreddy Van Wailin. He could be bad when drunk and he could be great when not. Overall he was a great player. He wasn't a shredder like Eddie, but Page did every bit as much for guitar and rock music in general, probably more. People at TGP evaluate him like he's supposed to be an olympic scale player, and that's just not him. I was not evaluating his overall live history, but there is a never ending stream of Page haters ready to rehash every cliche about him. I just know what I hear.

Dude is a recovering addict who is lucky to be alive. I respect that and don't judge him for that like some of you who think alcoholism is totally the fault of the drunk person, a view I do not agree with. It doesn't change his talent. But Jimmy Page chugged an entire full bottle of Black Jack Daniels right in front of me during a gig. And beer. None of you could play like that. Nor could your heroes. It was what it was.

To me I'm being realistic and you are being "lame", so right back at you.

Phil Collins ruined that show in a most unprofessional way. And I'm a huge Phil Collins fan. He did not know the songs, flat out. That is a deal breaker in any situation, but especially a band where the instrumental aspect is so critical, rather than just the blues jams Phil also did at the time. Phil was overly publicity seeking and tried to sit in with everybody in those days, by his own admission. That show would have been much better with a professional drummer.

Again, you respond as if you "know" Page and how he feels. There is plenty of documented history of Page performing poorly...it's not as if it's a secret. The man had a substance abuse issue and caused some shows to not be the best that he could do. You can support a musician without making excuses and pointing fingers when they have an off night or have other issues that impact their playing. We are not going to change each others minds...no reason to continue down this path.

 

[JohnnyBGoode]

BS. Now you are getting into dissing him overall, changing the topic, which is just typical Page hate. I simply disagree with you and Shreddy Van Wailin. He could be bad when drunk and he could be great when not. Overall he was a great player. He wasn't a shredder like Eddie, but Page did every bit as much for guitar and rock music in general, probably more. People at TGP evaluate him like he's supposed to be an olympic scale player, and that's just not him. I was not evaluating his overall live history, but there is a never ending stream of Page haters ready to rehash every cliche about him. I just know what I hear.

Dude is a recovering addict who is lucky to be alive. I respect that and don't judge him for that like some of you who think alcoholism is totally the fault of the drunk person, a view I do not agree with. It doesn't change his talent. But Jimmy Page chugged an entire full bottle of Black Jack Daniels right in front of me during a gig. And beer. None of you could play like that. Nor could your heroes. It was what it was.

To me I'm being realistic and you are being "lame", so right back at you.

Phil Collins ruined that show in a most unprofessional way. And I'm a huge Phil Collins fan. He did not know the songs, flat out. That is a deal breaker in any situation, but especially a band where the instrumental aspect is so critical, rather than just the blues jams Phil also did at the time. Phil was overly publicity seeking and tried to sit in with everybody in those days, by his own admission. That show would have been much better with a professional drummer.

No one expects him to be a shredder. Blues guys playing slowly also keep things tighter than he does.

Played enough jams and auditions to know when it's another player who throws me off and when it's me. What can you hear in the drumming that might have made JP play so off key?

Addictions are a sad issue. People lose their jobs and friends because of them instead of gainning fans who shift the blame to others when they screw up.

Blaming Phil Collins, shredders changing the standards or anyone else for giving a bad show is low.

 

[Tidbit]

I sat less than 40 feet from Page and his plexis when his Outrider tour came through town. He was drenched in sweat well before the 1st tune was over, and throughout the show there was a constant 4-6” bead of drool hanging off his chin. Every time a bead of drool fell off, another instantly took its place. The rest of the band, which included a young Jason Bonham, were dry as a bone. Kinda gave me the impression something else was in control. I didn’t want to go. I had cut my teeth on those first 4 albums, but I was firmly in the “Page is sloppy live” camp. But a friend had an extra ticket and talked me into going. So glad I went. Page was on his game that night. Or maybe it was whatever was pulling his strings? It left me with the understanding that live, Page is constantly reaching and sometimes he missed. On that night he nailed it. Sure did not want to be his guitar tech that night. Another bud snuck in a camera:

I saw that tour in Rochester New York. Others made fun of me beforehand saying I wasted my money (based on the Live Aide set) and that Jimmy was done. I was about 15 feet away and let me tell you...he certainly was on his game!

 

[kbraker51]

I thought Bonham and Jones were really tight, giving Page the platform play as he pleased. Yes, drugs, drinking and women no doubt affected his ability at times.

 

[Ken Whisler]

I saw that tour in Rochester New York. Others made fun of me beforehand saying I wasted my money (based on the Live Aide set) and that Jimmy was done. I was about 15 feet away and let me tell you...he certainly was on his game!

Was he constantly sweating and drooling that night you saw him?

 

[dhdfoster]

I was a bit of fan in my teens. I watched the Ronnie Lane Appeal for ARMS concert and i couldn't believe how he was slobbering and staggering around. His playing was a mess. I felt bad for him, as he was definitely not at his best.

After watching that concert film, I was of the opinion that Jeff Beck was the real talent in that show.

I'm kind of surprised how many people seem to think that the Heartbreaker solo is not sloppy. I guess if you don't think it's sloppy, then you just really like what Jimmy Page does. NTTAWWT.

 

[Tidbit]

Was he constantly sweating and drooling that night you saw him?

I was.

 

[zep41]

I was a bit of fan in my teens. I watched the Ronnie Lane Appeal for ARMS concert and i couldn't believe how he was slobbering and staggering around. His playing was a mess. I felt bad for him, as he was definitely not at his best.

After watching that concert film, I was of the opinion that Jeff Beck was the real talent in that show.

I'm kind of surprised how many people seem to think that the Heartbreaker solo is not sloppy. I guess if you don't think it's sloppy, then you just really like what Jimmy Page does. NTTAWWT.

Perhaps you should play and record the Heartbreaker solo and post it so we can see how it should be done!

 

[dhdfoster]

Perhaps you should play and record the Heartbreaker solo and post it so we can see how it should be done!

I'm sure my version would be sloppy, too.

What is your point? Are you saying that whether or not the original is sloppy is contingent on how I play it, or did you just not like what I said?