Joe bonamassa on Jimmy page

[CrispyTone]

I believe Eddie Van Halen's quote was "I saw him live at the forum and he played like he was two years old and had a broken hand."

 

[CrispyTone]

I have a magazine that has 5 or 6 of Eddie Van Halen's first interviews. He also had some things to say about other players as well in those early interviews.

 

[CrispyTone]

And that was when Eddie Van Halen was still in high school, so that would put it around 1972 or 1973.

 

[jimijimmyjeffy]

Phil Collins was not at fault, Page and Plant were not interested in rehearsing beforehand and on top of that Page was drunk and high on the day of concert. If you look at the recording you can at times see even Plant is disgusted/embarassed by Page's playing.

Collins is a Bonham fan and I'm sure that was not his first run at these songs.

No one expects him to be a shredder. Blues guys playing slowly also keep things tighter than he does.

Played enough jams and auditions to know when it's another player who throws me off and when it's me. What can you hear in the drumming that might have made JP play so off key?

Addictions are a sad issue. People lose their jobs and friends because of them instead of gainning fans who shift the blame to others when they screw up.

Blaming Phil Collins, shredders changing the standards or anyone else for giving a bad show is low.

go ahead and judge him. You are the low road hog. Go ahead and make yourself better condemning him. Your thinking I am making excuses is BS. I know he was in the throes of addiction as I stated a hundred times going back years. I have always freely accepted that whole situation, for decades. I just don't condemn him or say he sucks as a player and musician, which is what many say, in effect, in every thread about him. A lot of great musicians have had addictions, and we don't define them by that stuff. We should accept it with good humor and appreciate the good. He is successfully recovering now. Somehow I doubt that recovery has been easy. Nobody here is without serious faults. It was hard not to fall into that with sudden fame and fortune, especially if you were born addictive. A lot of great musicians are addicts partly because the obsessiveness needed to excel is itself biologically related to addiction.

And I also don't like that Phil sat in knowing he never cared to listen to any of the material despite knowing what it was going to be. He should have either declined or studied the material. You don't ruin another band's gig for attention. It's one thing if you are Page playing your own songs while intoxicated. It's another if you blow the gig as a guest; and a guest of one of one of the world's most renowned rock bands.

Bonham was a very early influence on Phil, but that had been decades before. Same as Weather Report.

 

[Bluesful]

Bonamassa > Page.

 

[Ken Whisler]

I was.

So in other words, in was one big sloppy party for EVERYONE there.....just as it was when I saw him.

Among the other photos was one of a groupie flashing her breasts. That pic disappeared shortly after my wife and I first started dating.

 

[zep41]

I'm sure my version would be sloppy, too.

What is your point? Are you saying that whether or not the original is sloppy is contingent on how I play it, or did you just not like what I said?

The point of my comment is that maybe you are hearing that particular solo break as sloppy because it doesn't align with your vision of what it ought to be. Have you considered that maybe you just don't understand what's being done here and you default to the "sloppy" description because you've heard it thrown around so often?

Look, I am no Page apologist despite the way I may come off. The guy had some real clunker performances and I know live Zeppelin well enough that I can probably rattle the majority of the dates of those performances off the top of my head. And the reason for those clunkers has been well debated here.

But the Heartbreaker solo on the Zeppelin II album is a lame example of Page being sloppy. We know now that he did at least a few takes for that solo. He wouldn't settle on that one if it's as lousy as you make it out to be. It's recorded and executed the way he wanted it to be.

So no - it's not that I didn't like what you said. It's that what you said was wrong. There are a lot of examples of Page being sloppy. This is not one of them.

 

[Someotherguy]

Actually, I apologize. Really ... ""heap"?
Nope

Lots of great amps by great builders. His are looking more like the best every time I hear about them. Time to go play one I guess. Closest I've come is my Dirty Shirley pedal. I'd have to squeeze to afford the 40. The Mini Shirley is what I may end up with. As my starter Friedman Amp.

The point of my comment is that maybe you are hearing that particular solo break as sloppy because it doesn't align with your vision of what it ought to be. Have you considered that maybe you just don't understand what's being done here and you default to the "sloppy" description because you've heard it thrown around so often?

Look, I am no Page apologist despite the way I may come off. The guy had some real clunker performances and I know live Zeppelin well enough that I can probably rattle the majority of the dates of those performances off the top of my head. And the reason for those clunkers has been well debated here.

But the Heartbreaker solo on the Zeppelin II album is a lame example of Page being sloppy. We know now that he did at least a few takes for that solo. He wouldn't settle on that one if it's as lousy as you make it out to be. It's recorded and executed the way he wanted it to be.

So no - it's not that I didn't like what you said. It's that what you said was wrong. There are a lot of examples of Page being sloppy. This is not one of them.

Interesting point. I have found that real blues sometimes doesn't match up to my sense of rhythm, space and timing and my mind finds it kind of jarring. I find it very hard to play some blues lines in a way that sounds right for this reason.

 

[fishleehooker]

Here is my take on playing (that generally relates to Jimmy Page's playing). I started playing about 9 or 10 years ago now. I was like 33, so I knew what I liked and knew what sounded good at first, then bored me over time. I had to think about this a lot, because playing electric guitar, you can go so many ways with it. But I remember being very cognizant of wanting to always sound a little ragged, sloppy, and punk no matter how good I got. And I don't really listen to all that much Punk rock.
I think Precise playing is great, but it doesn't really excite me quite like sloppy playing that could fall apart at any moment, yet somehow keeps it together kind of brilliantly. Jimmy knew that people crave excitement. He also knew technique left most people cold to some degree. It was all about communicating this danger, this excitement, this dark/light experience to the listener and audience. Nailed it.

 

[DewieCox]

Bonamassa > Page.

If you’re talking guitar playing, then not in this or any other universe. If you’re talking about slapping your name on something and selling it for an inflated price, JB may leave even Jimmy Page on the dust.

 

[zep41]

Bonamassa > Page.

Pretty sure Joe B. himself would laugh at that.

 

[dhdfoster]

The point of my comment is that maybe you are hearing that particular solo break as sloppy because it doesn't align with your vision of what it ought to be. Have you considered that maybe you just don't understand what's being done here and you default to the "sloppy" description because you've heard it thrown around so often?

Look, I am no Page apologist despite the way I may come off. The guy had some real clunker performances and I know live Zeppelin well enough that I can probably rattle the majority of the dates of those performances off the top of my head. And the reason for those clunkers has been well debated here.

But the Heartbreaker solo on the Zeppelin II album is a lame example of Page being sloppy. We know now that he did at least a few takes for that solo. He wouldn't settle on that one if it's as lousy as you make it out to be. It's recorded and executed the way he wanted it to be.

So no - it's not that I didn't like what you said. It's that what you said was wrong. There are a lot of examples of Page being sloppy. This is not one of them.

I didn’t mean it’s a lousy solo. It’s well loved and inspirational for countless players.

If you hear the picked parts of that solo as cleanly executed picking, then there is nothing i can say.

 

[zep41]

I didn’t mean it’s a lousy solo. It’s well loved and inspirational for countless players.

If you hear the picked parts of that solo as cleanly executed picking, then there is nothing i can say.

Well then we will have to disagree based on our opinions, and that is perfectly fine.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The point of my comment is that maybe you are hearing that particular solo break as sloppy because it doesn't align with your vision of what it ought to be. Have you considered that maybe you just don't understand what's being done here and you default to the "sloppy" description because you've heard it thrown around so often?

Look, I am no Page apologist despite the way I may come off. The guy had some real clunker performances and I know live Zeppelin well enough that I can probably rattle the majority of the dates of those performances off the top of my head. And the reason for those clunkers has been well debated here.

But the Heartbreaker solo on the Zeppelin II album is a lame example of Page being sloppy. We know now that he did at least a few takes for that solo. He wouldn't settle on that one if it's as lousy as you make it out to be. It's recorded and executed the way he wanted it to be.

So no - it's not that I didn't like what you said. It's that what you said was wrong. There are a lot of examples of Page being sloppy. This is not one of them.

Beg to differ.

I can hear the clams at 2:25 - 2:31 here. He was hearing and chasing something his fingers could not deliver, and no, nothing wrong with that, but let's not gild the lily. He may have had to settle on the best take being imperfect. Or had other reasons.

But the imperfections are audible. You can hear his picking hand and fretting hand not being in sync. Ask me how I know what that sounds like.

 

[zep41]

Beg to differ.

I can hear the clams at 2:25 - 2:31 here. He was hearing and chasing something his fingers could not deliver, and no, nothing wrong with that, but let's not gild the lily. He may have had to settle on the best take being imperfect. Or had other reasons.

But the imperfections are audible. You can hear his picking hand and fretting hand not being in sync. Ask me how I know what that sounds like.

Sorry, I'm just not with you on this. Not even a little bit.

 

[zep41]

Here, this guy seems to have it down almost spot on perfect if not just about perfect.

Notice this is almost note for note and timing/execution. What about this is "clammy" or "sloppy"?

 

[Tidbit]

Beg to differ.

I can hear the clams at 2:25 - 2:31 here. He was hearing and chasing something his fingers could not deliver, and no, nothing wrong with that, but let's not gild the lily. He may have had to settle on the best take being imperfect. Or had other reasons.

But the imperfections are audible. You can hear his picking hand and fretting hand not being in sync. Ask me how I know what that sounds like.

Sorry, I'm just not with you on this. Not even a little bit.

I hear the “imperfections” yet I think the solo is absolutely perfect just the way it is. I’ve thought the same thing since the first time I ever heard it.

 

[pickaguitar]

Bonamassa > Page.

At a buffet? Wearing sunglasses?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sorry, I'm just not with you on this. Not even a little bit.

You're entitled to your opinion, sure. Those notes speak for themselves.

 

[Johnny Ninefingers]

Beg to differ.

I can hear the clams at 2:25 - 2:31 here. He was hearing and chasing something his fingers could not deliver, and no, nothing wrong with that, but let's not gild the lily. He may have had to settle on the best take being imperfect. Or had other reasons.

But the imperfections are audible. You can hear his picking hand and fretting hand not being in sync. Ask me how I know what that sounds like.

OK. I may give you some of that; it ain't perfect but it is in some ways more true/real/having integrity. In many respects the Page of the first two Zep albums is a curious hybrid of an acoustic folk player and proto-punk rock electric player. It's why the Pistols went for the guitar sound on "Good Times, Bad Times" as the template on their first, Chris Spedding engineered demos. The electric Page of this period was spitting energy and spikier than any of the other major guitarists. He was obviously trying to differentiate his sound from the other big guys around him; and let's not forget they were: Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Peter Green, Mike Bloomfield, Rory Gallagher, Pete Townsend, George Harrison et al.

Like Hendrix, at the time Page sounded like no-one else. He claimed those notes for himself, with all the faults therein. Other folk took that bare fretmeltdown guitar and ran with it, and many of them were better technicians; but always remember - without Heartbreaker, no Eruption.