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Josephson C42 Matched Pair?

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
I recently listened to and A/B'ed the following mics:

- Josephson C42
- Peluso P28
- Neumann KM184
- Earthworks SR20

To my ears the C42s were very sweet, clean and detailed. Didn't like the KM184s much compared to the others. I liked the P28s but to me the C42s had a sweet quality to the tone but very detailed and full. The C42s through the A-Designs Pacifica sounded REALLY nice! Before I pull the trigger on buying the C42s does anyone have any experience with these or other mics in that price range? I'm looking to spend ~$1k for a matched pair for acoustic guitar and drum overheads. Thanks!
 

loudboy

Member
Messages
27,346
Don't spend extra for matching, unless you're doing 2-mic classical stuff.

It won't matter one bit for Drum OH's or acoustic guitar.
 

TAVD

Guitar Player
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,666
I slightly prefer the Beyer MC930 but both are very nice.
 

TAVD

Guitar Player
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,666
I've seen other posts where everyone is raving over the MC930. What is it about the MC930 you like over the C42? Thanks.
The mc930 sounds a bit warmer to me. The C42 can be too bright at times, requiring more EQ. Placement with the C42 is sometimes a bit tricky too because the mic body is so short, blumlein pair for example. The MC930 also has pad & hp switches if that's important to you.
 

skylabfilmpop

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
551
A lot of folks get great results from the Josephsons, they are probably as good a route as you can take without going for schoeps or vintage KM84. Unfortunately the field of sub $2-3000 pair SDC mics is pretty thin, thete are a lot out there but the josephons are probably tops for quality. the other best bet would be AKG c460 or C451E/EB or SM81. I never gave the SM81 much respect but apparently Discrete Drums used a pair for a couple of their libraries and they sound nice. I have gotten great results with a 451 or pair on AC guitar and overheads, but to qualify they are a specific sound, tight, slightly scaled. Within your budget you could also afford a decent pair of LDC's AKG414Buls or TLI pair or Rode K2 pair would both do well on OH's and ac guitar and be around or below your budget, you might also consider a pair of Beyer m160's in this role too. Unfortunately mics are not an either or question. Buy some , play with them see if they work for you , buy some more....
 

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
Buy some , play with them see if they work for you , buy some more....
skylabfilmpop, Thanks for the good information. Buying and selling to find the right gear becomes and expensive process but I know what you mean. The best test is to hear them in your studio with your preamps and A/D, etc. I'm finding feedback on TGP a great resource though for recommendations/confirmation about equipment. I'm hearing a lot of really good stuff about the Beyerdynamic mics. I've done an A/B shootout with the C42s, P28, KM184s and Earthworks and liked the C42s best for their sweet clear tone for acoustic guitar so their on the top of my list. I hear the Beyers are warmer but I don't have access to them to hear them. Thanks!
 

MichaelK

Member
Messages
6,476
Before I pull the trigger on buying the C42s does anyone have any experience with these or other mics in that price range? I'm looking to spend ~$1k for a matched pair for acoustic guitar and drum overheads. Thanks!
No offense, but you've been asking this same question for weeks in this and other threads, and getting pretty similar responses over and over. Very few are from people who say they've actually made comparisons, and I'll bet many – if not most – are from people who never used the mics they recommend at all. Some are people just repeating what they've read in other forums. You have no way of gauging the experience level of anyone who responded.

At best, you're going to end up with a list of what people have bought for themselves or read about online. The only USEFUL information you got was from doing your own comparison; why not go with what you know?
 

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
No offense, but you've been asking this same question for weeks in this and other threads, and getting pretty similar responses over and over. Very few are from people who say they've actually made comparisons, and I'll bet many – if not most – are from people who never used the mics they recommend at all. Some are people just repeating what they've read in other forums. You have no way of gauging the experience level of anyone who responded.

At best, you're going to end up with a list of what people have bought for themselves or read about online. The only USEFUL information you got was from doing your own comparison; why not go with what you know?
So, what's the point of this forum other than to discuss experiences others have had with different equipment, recording techniques, etc. I'm just trying to save myself from wasting money having to buy and then turn around and sell equipment that doesn't meet my expectations. Am I missing the point of this forum?
 

skylabfilmpop

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
551
Well most mics in a similar price range are going to give you a similar quality sound, different yes but close to each other in quality. I liken them to camera lenses. A good photographer cant have just one or two, they all can be employed sucessfully toward different ends. The same with mics. The important q factors to also keep in mind is that those mics might really compliment your instruments in your room, they could work totally differently somewhere else or like one of your acoustics and not the other. Your qualifier or presupposition of what a good sound is totally different from what someone elses expectation of a good sound is, or their intended use for that good sound is different (eg solo ac guitar vs one laid in with the hi hat on a track). So even if you are polling folks for whats best or asking for clips, you are chasing your tail because their room chain instrument and technique are all different than yours. The only way to know is to begin the journey, buy somthing and start listening. do you still have access to the Josephsons? If so pick up a pair of Beyers off ebay and shoot those out. If you prefer the Josephsons sell the others. (btw I have not used the Beyers and although I am a huge fan of the m160, m201, m130, m88 and m69, a friend of mine shot out every SDC from Oktava to km54 including the beyers and commented to me they were funny and grainy in the highs, although this is me just parroting someone elses opinion here) The experiment will only cost you $50 or so in shipping and seller fees as if you buy used you'll likely get your money back in full. The other thing too is if you are ginger about a couple hundered bucks, get over it. I respect that you don't want to waste money and purchase from an educated perspective but in the scope of all things microphones thats very little money. Recording and engineering is really a tactile learning experience, you have to do it to understand and learn it and doing it enough youll learn how to make sthe sound you are after out of whatever you have at your disposal. Likely what will happen is that you will make a choice, work with those mics , have fun learn some stuff and probably buy a few more pairs of different mics along the way. Personally it sounds to me like you are gravitating toward the Josephsons, so just go for it and enjoy!
 

MichaelK

Member
Messages
6,476
I'm not dictating what you should or should not post. I'm suggesting that you already have a list of excellent mics, and you seem like a smart enough guy that the only information you really need at this point is what your ears already told you. But if you find it helpful to keep asking for brands and model numbers, go for it. I won't say another word. Promise!
 

Bryan T

guitar owner
Messages
19,950
I had a pair of the Josephsons and a pair of the Beyers (and a single MC930 at a different time). Both are very good microphones. Neither is a magic bullet. The Beyers have more output but can be a bit bright on the highest highs. The Jospephsons have less output and, if I remember correctly, are a bit noisier.

It is easy to get wrapped up in the 'which is better' debate. I've certainly spent too many hours trying to weed through it.

If you have a good room, good instrument, good song, and can place/EQ the microphones, then either should be fine.
 

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
Well most mics in a similar price range are going to give you a similar quality sound, different yes but close to each other in quality. I liken them to camera lenses. A good photographer cant have just one or two, they all can be employed sucessfully toward different ends. The same with mics. The important q factors to also keep in mind is that those mics might really compliment your instruments in your room, they could work totally differently somewhere else or like one of your acoustics and not the other. Your qualifier or presupposition of what a good sound is totally different from what someone elses expectation of a good sound is, or their intended use for that good sound is different (eg solo ac guitar vs one laid in with the hi hat on a track). So even if you are polling folks for whats best or asking for clips, you are chasing your tail because their room chain instrument and technique are all different than yours. The only way to know is to begin the journey, buy somthing and start listening. do you still have access to the Josephsons? If so pick up a pair of Beyers off ebay and shoot those out. If you prefer the Josephsons sell the others. (btw I have not used the Beyers and although I am a huge fan of the m160, m201, m130, m88 and m69, a friend of mine shot out every SDC from Oktava to km54 including the beyers and commented to me they were funny and grainy in the highs, although this is me just parroting someone elses opinion here) The experiment will only cost you $50 or so in shipping and seller fees as if you buy used you'll likely get your money back in full. The other thing too is if you are ginger about a couple hundered bucks, get over it. I respect that you don't want to waste money and purchase from an educated perspective but in the scope of all things microphones thats very little money. Recording and engineering is really a tactile learning experience, you have to do it to understand and learn it and doing it enough youll learn how to make sthe sound you are after out of whatever you have at your disposal. Likely what will happen is that you will make a choice, work with those mics , have fun learn some stuff and probably buy a few more pairs of different mics along the way. Personally it sounds to me like you are gravitating toward the Josephsons, so just go for it and enjoy!
Very good advice! Thanks.
 

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
I'm not dictating what you should or should not post. I'm suggesting that you already have a list of excellent mics, and you seem like a smart enough guy that the only information you really need at this point is what your ears already told you. But if you find it helpful to keep asking for brands and model numbers, go for it. I won't say another word. Promise!
Actually, after re-reading your post I agree with your advice and it's similar to what others have said as well. Tone is such as subjective subject. If I knew how difficult and expensive this hobby was when I got into I might have thought twice about it! :) You're right about "Go with with what you know..." Good advice. I suppose in the end we have to trust our own ears. Thanks for the post.
 

enharmonic

Old Growth
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
8,802
I like the c42's. Probably what I'd buy to replace my Gefell M300's if I had the cash...totally different sound, but equally useful IMO.
 

Gretschman

Member
Messages
266
I cannot comment on the Josephson C42 mic's personally because I never
tried those out . But , I have talked to other guys that have used them and they seem to get a favorable vote .

I do however , own 5 Josephson ES22 mic's and those are some very nice mic's indeed .

I have also used the Josephson 720 studio mic and it is a great mic .

With all things in recording , you have to adjust your technics to fit each piece of gear and work it .

Your mic pre and converter will play a huge role in the sound you get .

I remember one time buying a Neumann TLM 103 mic on the way home from work to fill in a spot for a thing I was doing that night . When I got home and plugged it in to check it out , it sounded like crap !
No life at all and very digital . I thought , hey ! whats wrong here .
So I went into a box in the garage and found an old AKG 3000 mic , went into the other room , plugged it in and WOW ! It sounded so much better than that new $ 1000.00 Neumann !!
The mic pre made my cheap $ 300.00 mic sound great !
So , I hopped into my car and returned that Neumann for a refund .

You never know until you plug one in and use it !!!
 
Last edited:

LSchefman

Member
Messages
13,435
>> You never know until you plug one in and use it !!!<<

True, true!

And, what you use it on is just as important. A mic chosen to achieve the sound you want with a given instrument or vocal, in a given room, is a good choice no matter how many other choices there are.

The same mic can sound amazing on 'this,' and not so good on 'that.'

Which is why most studios of note have many choices in their mic cabinets.
 

guitarplayer

Member
Messages
558
I just purchased a matched pair of Josephson C42s last night and picking them up today! I'm looking forward to taking them for a drive in my studio and with my preamps, etc. Thanks to everyone for the great advice. I especially like skylabfilmpop's analogy of mics being like camera lenses. That really hit home because my wife is a photographer and she always wants new lenses for different purposes. Hummm, now maybe I can explain why I need these mics. ;-) Now, onto the search for a better preamp... "Constant improvement, constant improvement" :)
 

MichaelK

Member
Messages
6,476
I also liked that analogy of mics to camera lenses; his advice in general was spot-on.

Congrats! Have fun! Let us know how the new mics work out for you.
 

headstack

Member
Messages
195
>> You never know until you plug one in and use it !!!<<

True, true!

And, what you use it on is just as important. A mic chosen to achieve the sound you want with a given instrument or vocal, in a given room, is a good choice no matter how many other choices there are.

The same mic can sound amazing on 'this,' and not so good on 'that.'

Which is why most studios of note have many choices in their mic cabinets.
This is the most poignant info for my crust old techniques.
If you can get the sound from the instrument (voice too) by putting the right mic (s) in the right place, and not have to use any EQ, if you have planned well, the end result should be a really great starting point for your mix.
Certainly one with a whole lot less phase shifts and other weirdness.
I do not know if you have a studio in your area that has a bunch of the mics you want to shoot out, but...
It really might be worth your money for a couple of hours time to set them all up, grab an acoustic, a singer (even a bad one :)) and a few other things you need to hear the mics on, and carefully plan your attack.
Do adjacent tracks with each mic with each sound.
Track 1=Josephson, Track 2=Neuman, Track 3=Schoeppe and so on.
Have a friend place each mic in the same spot as you record each sound source.
On an acoustic, I would do, a few placements you like... upper bout, sound hole off axis etc.
However, you will have to be timely with some things to get through the mission or you may not get through the day.
Take the session home and A/B everything with fresh ears.
This is a nice way to build a resource on what different mics can do with a particular types of source material.
 




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