Juicebox vs. PP2 or PP2+

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by GuitarBrent, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. GuitarBrent

    GuitarBrent Member

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    I don't have a Juicebox, but it looks great on paper. I did have a PP2, but I never liked the sag feature. Does the Juicebox V-Bat feature do a better job of emulating batteries? Also, does it have a toroidal transformer like the PP2?
     
  2. amoebas

    amoebas Guest

    judging by its spec sheet, the juicebox does give a lower voltage on its sag outputs than the pp2, but as for "better", i don' t know what you mean.

    it's gotta have a toroid, it fits in a 1/3 of a rack space!

    EDIT: however, the juicebox might be noisier, as not all of its outputs are isolated. each of the pp2's are isolated from each other.
     
  3. gururyan

    gururyan Member

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  4. GuitarBrent

    GuitarBrent Member

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    By better, I mean sound more like a battery. The sag feature on the PP2 didn't sound anything like a battery in my fuzzes and wah that sound better with batteries. The Juicebox has 2 features to emulate a battery, and I'm wondering if it actually works.
     
  5. TBone

    TBone Member

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    Actually, the JuiceBox has great isolation and filtering. And we could have easily taken the direction to provide more isolated outputs, but the sacrifice is that you end up with iso channels with only 80 to 100 mA capacity. If we were competing with the current outputs of the PP2+ we would have 15 outputs! We on the other hand felt that fewer iso channels with higher mA ratings would be a more usable option for a lot of players needing more power. It's not necessary to isolate every pedal. Success that some have with the One Spot and Godlyke have shown that. However, there are times when this doesn't work and some isolation is required. So with 5 iso channels, you do get some options.

    Also as far as noise goes, one big problem with noise in a power supply is not enough power. At 3000mA total output, the JuiceBox has more than enough power for most rigs. Extra power won't hurt you and gives you room to grow, too little power is a problem.

    Tony@pedalgear.net
     
  6. shakti

    shakti Member

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    Tony,

    any news on the possible attachment modules allowing for even more voltages, or most prudently for us Foxrox users, 2 isolated 9VAC outlets? Also, are the stand-alone V-Bats coming back?
     
  7. TBone

    TBone Member

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    We're working on some options that will provide for more isolated outputs. This will be an add on module to the JuiceBox to split out the heafty iso channels into smaller ones. Since the most comments we get are around our 5 iso channels vs the PP2's 8 this will expand the JuiceBox far beyond. So we've trying to resolve the configuration of the splitter to fill the most needs. Multiple 9 or 12 VAC has been part of the discussion.

    And we do have plans to bring back the V-Bats. They should be available in a couple of months.

    Thanks for asking,
    Tony@pedalgear.net
     
  8. shakti

    shakti Member

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    Allow me to say that I have a version 2.0(?) of the Juicebox, and *never* hhad any noise issues. And that was with a fairly convoluted loop of pedals, which could easily have led to many ground loops. No problems there even with "only" 4 isolated channels of DC current.

    The AC issue is another one...pleeease include multiple 9/12VAC options!
     
  9. TomK

    TomK Member

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    Like Tony (T-Bone) said - most noise in power supplies is attributed to "ripple" (not the Fred Sanford type...) / insufficient filtering or to insufficient current available. The JuiceBox is over-engineered by several magnitudes in any fashion.

    Specifically to the sag / Vbat: Real battery "sag" is a voltage drop in response to increased current demand. Since a battery is not a regulated power source and only has finite current available its baseline voltage will drop as it tries to maintain constant current output. This can be fairly dynamic - particularly with some analog distortion pedals and wahs. The easiest way for someone to simulate sag is to use an adjustable voltage regulator and simply change the output voltage - however this just gives you an adjustable voltage power supply. However - the second component is sag in response to current demand. So the JuiceBox has components to make it act like a battery in this case. We used to allow adjustment of both components (voltage and response) but we found that everyone was setting the response to MAX - so we simply set that value in the circuit and allow the user to adjust the baseline voltage. Stand alone versions of the VBat circuit will allow adjustment of both components.

    The VBat needs to be experimented with....it definitely comes close to getting a true "carbon" battery "sound" out of pedals and beyond. This actually makes some sense when you think about it. Since most pedals are based on some type of an op-amp - and since the power supply voltage determines the headroom and performance of the op-amp then changing voltages can drastically change the sound of a pedal. Some pedals simply don't take to being starved....

    I've told the story a thousand times but the nexus of the VBat concept came to us from a couple of places almost simultaneously....one source was the band Monster Magnet who told us early on that they preferred batteries to power supplies...the second and third were two good friends who told us that their Diaz Tremedillo and early Boss BF2 sounded "killer" just before the batteries died. So out came the voltage meters and scopes.....Were able to measure pretty drastic differences when using constant sine waves into pedals and then adjusting voltage and sag. We even did some experiments where we used the fluctuating current of one pedal (a Boss BF-2 flanger) to modulate the voltage to a secondary pedal (Fuzz...) kind of interesting!

    Since early on power supplies almost always used 9.6vdc as their regulation point yet carbon batteries had a much lower baseline (typically from just below 9 volts to about 9.2vdc and then dropped quickly from there..) it was not hard to figure out that there really can be a difference in "sound" between types of batteries (alkaline vs carbon) and even between brands.

    So - Eric Johnson is vindicated!
     
  10. Cotton

    Cotton Member

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    Another fan of the Juicebox here... It works... It works better than me! I use a couple of different boards. Both have Juiceboxes. My smaller board is used everyday and hustled all over for quick grab, go, setup, play, collect, and crash gigs. The Juicebox is the only gear on the board that has never been replaced and never failed. I use it everyday.

    Cotton
     

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