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Juke Amps! Appreciation! Thread

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by hawkeyeinexile, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. tlainhart

    tlainhart Member

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    Given what you've been writing here, I would recommend digging in and getting the cathode/fixed option, and consider a build with 6V6s. You also have a choice for where you want the MV to go (pre/post PI) - that will influence that type of OD you'll hear. Gary can help you with that.

     
  2. GibsonLives

    GibsonLives Supporting Member

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    Hmmmm another choice to make? Oh boy lol. Guess I need to call Gary in the morning. Meantime, anyone have a general idea of the tonal difference a pre vs. post PI MV might make?

    6v6, eh? You know, I was thinking that when I was leaning toward the Rave; now, I'm more in the Coda camp, as I'd like to have something with a bit broader control (contour, reverb, etc.). I also was starting to think more in terms of going fixed bias with the Coda, since it's an option for getting more wattage; he offers only cathode with the Rave is memory serves, so if I want cathode only, it would probably make more sense to save a few hundred (and lose a couple knobs) and go Rave. So, yeah, if I'm spending more, I might as well get that extra power, which can be tamed a bit with the combo of the pentode/triode switch, and of course, the MV.

    I'll find out once and for all what the extra cost, if any, is in going for a cathode/fixed switch (though if you read the Coda's description on Juke's site, it sounds as though it is included in the price).

    One more question: Anyone know how much wattage I'd get from a 6v6 build in fixed bias? The site says 30 watts for 5881s (which I'm assuming is using two tubes); would a 6v6 build require four power tubes to achieve 30 watts, or would it still use only two, and the wattage be lower?

    Ugh, I'm so confused lol. I'll call him...and blame you guys for giving me way too many options haha!

    Seriously, though, thanks for taking the time. Maybe one of these years, it'll all sink in for me (though I'm not holding my breath).

    Steve
     
  3. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    it's not as straightforward as we'd like. there are 4x6V6 amps that put out as much as 40 or even 60 watts rms (cf. Kelley Amps). 30watts is common but beside the point, cuz Gary doesn't offer a 4x6V6 amp, as far as i know. so, expect 12-18w rms from a 2x6V6 amp, depending on transformers, etc.

    5881 tubes put out about 23 watts rms, so 30watts rms is conservative. (Clapton's bluesbreaker amp was in the 30+-watt range)

    :cool:
     
  4. tlainhart

    tlainhart Member

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    You only have the option for two power tubes. I recommended the 6V6 because I thought that you were going for lower output, and power tube distortion.

    5881s with cathode/fixed and pentode/triode will give you a bunch of power options - that might be your best bet. It's what Jeff (hawkeye) is running, and he's really happy with that.

    I don't know the differences regarding MV placement in the stack. I told Gary what I was looking for, and my playing style, and I took his recommendation.
     
  5. GibsonLives

    GibsonLives Supporting Member

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    Thanks, tlainhart. I think I've decided to go for a higher powered amp, and that, if I were okay with low-power, I'd probably save a few hundred bucks and go with the Rave. Having the ability to get up to 30 watts would give me a bit more oomph compared with my Goodsell (17 watts) and Marshall (1 watt), and whether I go fixed/cathode or merely fixed, getting down to even 10 watts should work when I need less headroom and earlier breakup (obviously, the ability to have 30, 18, 10, or 6 watts would be even cooler, but we'll see).

    I'll ask Gary about the pros and cons of the various options when I speak with him again, which should be soon.

    Steve
     
  6. btg

    btg Member

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    I have a vamp and a coda. If I am playing with a drummer I use the Coda. On duo gigs without a drummer I love the Vamp but the Coda works well in this situation too. I don't think you can go wrong with the Coda.
     
  7. GibsonLives

    GibsonLives Supporting Member

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    btg, may I ask what types of music you play, and whether the Coda's gain-level and character is sufficient for you, or if you rely on pedals? I assume yours is fixed-bias? Are you using 6L6, 5881, or other power tubes? Thanks :).
    Steve
     
  8. btg

    btg Member

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    In a band situation we are primarily a pretty traditional blues band in the tradition of the early Fabulous Thunderbirds. My duo does blues and classic country music. I use strats, teles, and P90 equipped Les Paul and a ES-5. I use the amps reverb and tremolo which are the best I have heard and the reason I own these amps. I like the amps to be pretty clean so I am probably not the best person to talk to about gain characteristics but they will dirty up enough to get me some of the early chess records sounds which is all I need. My next amp is the full size Warbler.
     
  9. jpastras

    jpastras Supporting Member

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    Hey guys! I just bought a used Juke I found in a local music store. I'm really impressed with the amp - it seems like a cool cross between a brown deluxe or a Princeton, an Ampeg, and a Magnatone.

    As has been mentioned, it's a lot of amp to get the hang of when it comes to dialing it in, and I want to understand more about it, so I can better set some targets for how I can dial it in, and where it can be taken. For example, is it more inclined to be squishy because of the bias scheme, rectifier and PI, so don't bother trying to find a Blackface sound, or is it more inclined t be tight and clean, but in triode you might b able to get a brown princeton sound, etc. If I knew some of the design targets, I might be able to really get it where it wants t be.

    The model name is Juke 112 6v. It has a 5y3 rectifier and 6v6es, and 12 inch Weber P12Q-O. The control panel is the Maggie-style, rather than the straight-across. I just got it, and haven't had a chance to crank it or explore very much. I loved the low-volume clean tone in Pentode mode, and I'm exploring the triode mode and have used that on two gigs.

    ANybody know the PI, bias scheme, and design basis for this amp?
     
  10. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    howdy, Jason, congrats and i hope you love the amp. i had a 112, which was similar to yours, the diffs being 6L6's and 5AR4 rectifier. i forget what speaker was in it. maybe a Weber Alnico like the Jensen you have.

    first, let me make sure you know the website for these amps - Juke Amps. Gary Croteau's contact info is there & other stuff. Gary's the Man for all things Juke. he may even have an owner's guide available for you. he's a one-man shop and has been developing his line for maybe 25-30 yrs.

    as i recall (let the reader beware!) the design goal was to incorporate sounds of tweed-era Fenders and Gibson amps, to which Gary integrated tremolo (Valco-like, "AM"), vibrato (Magnatone or "FM"), reverb (Ampeg sideband-C).

    to adjust volume and tone Gary recommends setting volume and tone controls to 12 o'clock, then experimenting in small increments 'til you get the sound you want. i played in some bluesy R&B outfits & jammy-type groups and i would set Level to about 2/3 or 3/4 & Volume to suit the room and other players. usually i had Tone almost fully up, Bass at about 1/3, Treble maybe around 2 o'clock and adjust Contour to the room, etc. same with Presence.

    for low-output pickups (tele, strat, so forth) i often used a PaulC Tim or Timmy pedal for solos.

    i'm not a blackface fan (sold my old Super Reverb after long comparison with my Juke 1210), but you might approach that sound with the Ultralinear option (toggle switch between power tubes in the back) in Pentode mode, if you have it. also, maybe connect to a ceramic speaker, e.g. Eminence Red, White, & Blues or Weber California. and experiment more with Contour & Tone, etc.

    the phase inverter is just any good 12AX7. i never used triode mode much until i got my Juke Coda, so no help there. also, i'm not sure what biasing method Gary uses, so consult your local expert.

    hope this helps

    :cool:
     
  11. tlainhart

    tlainhart Member

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    For folks on this thread that own a Coda: will a speaker like a Weber "Vintage" Alnico or a Celestion Gold fit in the cabinet, with the magnet bell clearing the chassis/tubes?
     
  12. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    as i recall <memory alert> the Gold wouldn't fit, cuz it's too deep for the back panel and the reverb tank had to be removed, too. so i put it in a separate cab by itself. oh yeah - this was in the 112, not the Coda. same difference, i believe. i also seem to recall the Jensen Blackbird would just make it. nice speaker, too.

    :cool:
     
  13. longgonedaddy

    longgonedaddy Supporting Member

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    It may be blasphemy, but does anyone use a modeler like a line 6 multi with their Juke?:hide

    I'm thinking about simplifying my rig, and a modeler will go a long way to do that. I have a warbler with a 15" speaker, so its a very clean base tone to work off of. Anyone have thoughts? Other than :mob. ;)
     
  14. MHG

    MHG Member

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    Last time I contacted him, he said he wasn't building many amps anymore, and wasn't really building at all in the summer months. He kind of made it feel like he would be doing me a favor. Anyone know if this is still the case?
     
  15. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    i've never heard a modeler that didn't mask or obscure the basic amp's clean sound. sometimes that's not a bad thing (i've moved away from Fender blackface sounds pretty much). hard to imagine a Juke's innate warmth and richness and sweetness shining through a Line6 blanket. so, i'd suggest just getting a cheap used Fender for yr modeling rig and keep the Juke for what it is. kinda like a Matchless or a Komet.

    general thought: there's a line of thought on TGP & elsewhere that a tube amp might be great but be a "one-trick pony". i tend to ignore those. if i were in a cover band, then i might in the market for multi-channel amp w/an effects loop.
    but, happy to say, i'm not.

    other thought: go ahead & use the Line6 or other gadget. can't hurt.

    :cool:
     
  16. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    if a guy doesn't have to build an amp, but agrees to, he likely is doing it as a favor. in part anyway. i was talking to Rick Turner about a beautiful acoustic guitar he'd built. just to keep his hand in, he said. one for his little boy and one for Henry Kaiser to take to Antarctica. was just too busy at the time to take an order for one with his regular electric and acoustic-electric lines...

    :cool:
     
  17. Diablo1

    Diablo1 Member

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    Maybe he feels that his niche market is gone now with the new Magnatones being produced?
     
  18. longgonedaddy

    longgonedaddy Supporting Member

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    Thanks for confirming every thought I had. Plus and minus ;)
     
  19. Warbler Muse

    Warbler Muse Silver Supporting Member

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    I never stopped building amps though I didn't do much when I was dealing with cancer.

    Juke Amps weren't designed to be a Magnatone substitute though they have Bonham pitch-shifting vibrato circuits which were licensed to Magnatone / Estey, Audio Guild and a dozen other manufacturers in the 50's & 60's.

    Juke Amps are recognizably different in nature from any of the amps using Bonham's circuit past or present.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
  20. MHG

    MHG Member

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    Great to hear........but that is exactly what you told me when I contacted you not too long ago.
     

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