Just a thought regarding tire kicking and guitar weight...

viper jazz

Member
Messages
89
Imagine going into a used car dealership* and asking a seller if the car had heated seats, and then being raked over coals for doing so.

"Seriously? I'm not going to answer that question. It's clear to me that you don't understand the true driving experience and that you have no talent for operating a car. Heated seats are just a passing fad that millions of other used car buyers throughout history never even considered a factor, so why do you consider yourself so special? SO ARE YOU GONNA BUY OR WHAT???"

EDIT: A used car website.
Except in this case you're buying a car from another driver, not from a business that professionally sells used cars.

If I'm selling my car through the classifieds of whatever format and someone starts asking about heated seats I'm making a safe assumption that this person is most likely, probably, pretty-darn-close-to-definitely NOT going to buy this car. Why? Because they're a tirekicker who's going to nitpick and has a default assumption that they're going to get ripped off.

Guys who think of their houses like castles w/ moats. Guys who wear khaki shorts on stage. Guys like my dad (I'm a 40 yr old father myself, mind you).

So, y'know, pretty much the exact definition of the kind of buyer OP was describing when it comes to guitars.
 

grumphh

Member
Messages
2,663
Except in this case you're buying a car from another driver, not from a business that professionally sells used cars.

If I'm selling my car through the classifieds of whatever format and someone starts asking about heated seats I'm making a safe assumption that this person is most likely, probably, pretty-darn-close-to-definitely NOT going to buy this car. Why? Because they're a tirekicker who's going to nitpick and has a default assumption that they're going to get ripped off.

Guys who think of their houses like castles w/ moats. Guys who wear khaki shorts on stage. Guys like my dad (I'm a 40 yr old father myself, mind you).

So, y'know, pretty much the exact definition of the kind of buyer OP was describing when it comes to guitars.
Don't feed the trolls, this thread is long anough already :)
 

jerrycampbell

Member
Messages
5,970
Really, dude? THAT's what you latch on to? In real life people would be laughing at you. "Invented fiction"; what a goofball.
Am I wrong? Have you found that post where someone demanded a seven pound Les Paul yet?
I'm a "goofball" for pointing out that you made up a story instead of using real life data?
Did you not understand my instructions on how to weigh a guitar, and need more guidance?
 

dirk_benedict

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,479
Except in this case you're buying a car from another driver, not from a business that professionally sells used cars.

If I'm selling my car through the classifieds of whatever format and someone starts asking about heated seats I'm making a safe assumption that this person is most likely, probably, pretty-darn-close-to-definitely NOT going to buy this car. Why? Because they're a tirekicker who's going to nitpick and has a default assumption that they're going to get ripped off.

Guys who think of their houses like castles w/ moats. Guys who wear khaki shorts on stage. Guys like my dad (I'm a 40 yr old father myself, mind you).

So, y'know, pretty much the exact definition of the kind of buyer OP was describing when it comes to guitars.
So you think it's a good strategy, when selling something, to deliberately turn off some percentage of your potential buyers?
 

A3-21

Member
Messages
91
therein lies the problem
No. The only problem is people like you that can't comprehend the simple fact that guitar weight does matter for very obvious and practical reasons for a lot of people. Ignorance. That's the real problem. You're still making baseless claims just to suit your argument.. A topic which actually nobody is talking about.. as was mentioned countless times already. Comments you willingly ignored. Your ongoing monologue saved you a very special place on my ignore list. You don't have anything of worth to say. I'll now stop wasting my time with your ramblings.
 
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rhinocaster

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
23,245
You know what adding the weight of the guitar did for my sales here? It stopped people from contacting me about the weight of the guitar.

You know how much trouble it's given me with "Obsessive, weight conscious TGPers" complaining that I gave them a wrong weight? Zero.

The math is pretty simple...

The funny part is that, while I'm interested that a guitar falls within a weight range before I buy, I've never checked the weight once the guitar arrives. I've already done my homework and as long as there are no surprises when I pull the guitar from the case, there's no reason to check.

It's still amazing that a thread was started by someone that is tired of "tire kickers" that ask for guitar weight and when people say, "List the weight and you won't have to deal with those people" the response was..."Nah, I'll just continue to trade pointless PMs with them..." This thread should have been over at post #4.
 
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kwicked

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,675
Except in this case you're buying a car from another driver, not from a business that professionally sells used cars.

If I'm selling my car through the classifieds of whatever format and someone starts asking about heated seats I'm making a safe assumption that this person is most likely, probably, pretty-darn-close-to-definitely NOT going to buy this car. Why? Because they're a tirekicker who's going to nitpick and has a default assumption that they're going to get ripped off.

Guys who think of their houses like castles w/ moats. Guys who wear khaki shorts on stage. Guys like my dad (I'm a 40 yr old father myself, mind you).

So, y'know, pretty much the exact definition of the kind of buyer OP was describing when it comes to guitars.
Or they have a preference for heated seats and don't want to waste their time or yours by coming to test drive it if it doesn't have a feature that is important to them. How you can't see that this is a benefit to you is astonishing.
 
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John Hurtt

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
18,886
It depends on why you care... and that's my point.... it was rarely an issue prior to the proliferation of supposed acoustic benefits found on the internet, and then it was to accommodate those with physical limitations... There is no issue with that.

However, with the ever swelling explosion of those on a "tone quest" looking for anything they can adopt as being paramount to achieve an undefinable sound, with "weight" being the preeminent adoptee today. Adopting the calculus that light weight = more resonant, and more resonant cannot help but to promote superior tone (completely wrong incidentally) has prompted a flood of the ill-informed to insist on a feature that actually has a better chance of negating the very quality they think it guarentees...

It is THAT motivation I and others have attempted to show-case. If "you" want it, is not the issue, it's WHY you want it... and if that "why" is based on faulty internet mythology, wouldn't "you" like too, at the very least have the opportunity to consider the alternative view point? That "why" often surfaces as being the predicate to resonance, then that to superior tone as the interview progresses...

remember, in Jurassic Park, when the Lawyer, soon to become Tyrannosaurus Rex "finger food" said to "Tim" as he was playing with the Night vision bi-nocs..., "If it's heavy, it's expensive." Well that's the way it has been, pretty much for the life of the electric guitar, with light weight representing the cheep imports... until Wham!! . . . we're hit with the flood of fiction called valid information suggesting we have been wrong for the first 70 years of the life of the electric guitar. AND that the lighter, the better.. has now become the "marquee" inferring superior anything...everything...

while "light weight" CAN be a superb guitar.. the introduction of the reduced mass of the body presents anomalies that must be accommodated to get them where ya wanna be sonically.. The process of rooting through lumber to find a piece to suit a target weight AND accommodate the issues necessary to produce a sonically pleasing guitar add to the costs... Are ya willing to pay for it,...? WHAT are ya willing to pay??

Those are considerations no one ever talks about?? like light weight is just another fashion statement.. it is.. but it's one that has costs associated... Like your wife's new shoes, they can cost 75 bux.. unless they're Ferragamo, then it's 7500 bux... it's still just fashion. . . and when you factor in that NO responsible Luthier is going to present you with a "boat anchor" as a viable guitar... you have to ask is an 8 pounder... really a deal killer when you consider it weights about the same as the two grey and greasy patties in a Double Whopper more than the quite acceptable 7.5 pounder? Hum?? Really? Or is a completely "absurd" 8.5 pounder really such a burden when you consider it weight less than about ½ the weight of that "Big Gulp" ya paid 9 bux for at the "ball game" than the much accepted 7.5 pound guitar... Get real guys... I mean, really, just get real...

rk
There could some of this, but I believe you could also point to the elimination of many music stores and the increase of online shopping for gear. More people are educating themselves trying to find out all they can about an online purchase.
 
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5,057
I completely agree with this...as a seller you can determine how you want to sell your guitar. You don't think that the weight is part of a "detailed description"?
No I don't. It only became a 'thing' since the inception of the internet; if it wasn't important then I don't consider it important now. Whoever buys my guitars can determine for themselves, in person, whether they suit them.
 
Messages
5,057
I can speak only for myself, but I didn't care about weight when I was a kid, either - I just wanted to rock and thankfully I was young and able. But I'm over the hill now and my shoulder and back can't do the job like they did when I was 18. A lighter guitar means I can play a longer set with a minimum of pain or discomfort. I'd wager that many people who are interested in a guitar's weight are either proactively or responsively trying to take care of their bodies so they can play as long as possible in this life - that's why *I'm* interested, anyway...

PS - I'm on mobile and am not sure I can work a multi quote but wanted to add that I'm jealous of your metric system, it's clearly superior but had we adopted it back in the day, it would have ruined America's reputation for total idiocy. ;)
I once worked for an engineering equipment supplier, and the sheer number of different screw thread pitches was ridiculous. At least metric has standardised things.
 

John Hurtt

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
18,886
No I don't. It only became a 'thing' since the inception of the internet; if it wasn't important then I don't consider it important now. Whoever buys my guitars can determine for themselves, in person, whether they suit them.
I'm sure there were people caring and checking weight before the internet. It's more that online sales vs hands on buying has dramatically increased. It is obviously your decision as a seller to cut down your prospective buying market...but seems rather shortsided to me.
 

rhinocaster

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
23,245
I do wonder how the sellers on TGP would appreciate one very vocal person here telling everyone to just leave sellers alone....:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao

I can picture opening up an online store where I provide as little information as possible on the guitars I'm selling, sell "AS IS" only and just wait for the serious buyers to throw their money at me. I can call it, "It's Your Problem Now Guitars!"

Now stand back, I don't want anyone hurt by all the flying money!
 

kwicked

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,675
No I don't. It only became a 'thing' since the inception of the internet; if it wasn't important then I don't consider it important now. Whoever buys my guitars can determine for themselves, in person, whether they suit them.
I wonder if just maybe that coincides with the inception of online sales via the internet. This is a really hard concept for some, so i guess it bears repeating- it is much less of an issue if you are able to try the guitar in person. In many situations now and likely more in the future, you are not able to do so. Of course it is your choice to sell only to the tiny fraction of the market that is within driving distance of you and letting them know where the rest of your gear is. I still haven't seen anyone saying that sellers MUST list a weight. Just that it is stupid not to.
 
Messages
2,054
And this exactly how it should work. Don’t feel like furnishing requested details? Don’t mind not selling your guitar? Bingo, everyone happy!

Once people start asking me the weight of a guitar, I just go ahead and assume they aren't really interested. I'm not weighing it, and I'm not posting the weight in the ad. If you don't like that, too bad, don't buy my guitar.
 
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