Just discovered the Lydian mode

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Sid

Member
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3,430
And rediscovered that joy you get when you find something amazing and new!!! like the first time i could play hotel california or the solo the sweet child o mine....!!!

Ive seen a coupla videos and lessons but it never really piqued my interest....still sounded like the major scale played at a different position to me....and then I disovered Mike Dodge's lesson site...damn cool stuff....instantly got me into Vai and Satch territory for Lydian usage!! very cool...

I wrote a song instantly.....I love playing it...been a long time since I wrote a song and played the riff again and again and AGAIN!!!!

Before I go into the Lydian riff, I have a wierd progression going....Gadd9,Dsus4,Em6,G maj:D....dunno what key its in or why it sounds nice to me....

still searching for ideas to go into after the riff in E Lydian....any ideas;)

ps.does Andy Timmons resolution use the Lydian...the minute I played the scale I got the resolution vibe from it
 
S

slopeshoulder

Senior Member
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7,860
cool.
you'll love lydian flat 7 and lydian augmented even more (they're both melodic minor modes). BTW, Mick Goodrick once suggested to me that in most cases, any out-of-key major chord in a song, other than the actual 1 should be handled via the lydian mode.
 
Kappy

Kappy

Member
Messages
14,046
It's a beautiful sound. Too bad it's been pretty well beaten to death by millions of guitar players.

slopeshoulder, ever try it (regular lydian) on the I chord? It's a nicer sound to my ears than ionian.
 
S

Sid

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3,430
slopeshoulder said:
cool.
you'll love lydian flat 7 and lydian augmented even more (they're both melodic minor modes). BTW, Mick Goodrick once suggested to me that in most cases, any out-of-key major chord in a song, other than the actual 1 should be handled via the lydian mode.
Click to expand...

damn now im itching to go back and try those out....am i crazy or is this the most beautiful mode of the major scale!!

very interesting on the out of key major chord.....I really like the sound of the lydian on the I chord itself...I wonder if I could try G Lydian on the last chord in this progression...Gadd9,Dsus4,Em6,G maj..I dunno what key its in though:D
 
S

Sid

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3,430
dkaplowitz said:
It's a beautiful sound. Too bad it's been pretty well beaten to death by millions of guitar players.

slopeshoulder, ever try it (regular lydian) on the I chord? It's a nicer sound to my ears than ionian.
Click to expand...

I cant see myself using the ionian on a I chord again:D....I guess im on my way to being the 1,000,001 player
 
M

Member 995

I love the Lydian sound. I always think of "Flying in a Blue Dream" when I hear it. The sound seems to be fairly common in Indian music and they'll hang on that #4.

Bryan
 
S

Sid

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3,430
Bryan T said:
I love the Lydian sound. I always think of "Flying in a Blue Dream" when I hear it. The sound seems to be fairly common in Indian music and they'll hang on that #4.

Bryan
Click to expand...

I'm Indian...well now that makes a lotta sense...I seem to linger around that note as wel!!:RoCkIn
 
S

Sid

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3,430
yea...I guess what I meant was...I couldnt understand what the big deal was....but there is a certain way I guess to create a mood with this mode....which I finally understood yesterday....

I might not differentiate the LYdian mode when a Jazz player uses it over a change...but stuff like when the entire mood of the song is LYdian...thats what Im talkin about:BEER...flying in a blue dream
 
G

gennation

Member
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8,041
Hey Sid, Mike Dodge here.

I'm glad that lesson clicked for you. Breaking the scales out that way can open up years of creativity, especially when you relate it to the other Modes/scales.

Hopefully you made it through a 3 parts of the tutorial. I have Part 4 just about ready for prime-time except for the audio recordings. Take a look at it here: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns4.htm

That lesson will hit on even a lot more for you, kind of from a different direction. It REALLY gets into all the add9 cords that the scale feeds off from. And it shows a progression that uses multiple Lydian scales to play form, IOW, VERY Modal.

I'm also working on a 3rd Indian Sliding Technique lesson explaining using the technique with the Lydian scale, this will cover quite a bit of stuff related to the Satch/Vai sound.

The Lydian scale is a scale of expression more so than a "licks based out of Lydian" that a lot of others scale can fall into. Here's a few musical examples that the scale just breaths in:

Here it's used as complete expression over a drone backing. Many people think the Lydian is very bright and ajor sounding, this clip sompletely disspells that thought. Here it creates a very dark atmosphere: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD1/elydian.mp3

Here it's use direct in the Steve Vai vein (note, the ending chords sequence is the chord progression example in Part 4 link): http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/LimitedAbility_NotFinished.mp3

Here it's used in a modern Jazz tune. The chords are Cmaj9-Am9-Cmaj7 essentially. Lydian is used in the main melody as well as ANY time in solo'ing over the Cmaj9 and Cmaj7 chords. You can really "hang on the #4" over this progression, the guitar, bass, and mandolin do it quite a bit in this tune. This is a tune were you can definitely use Lydian over the "I chord".: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/SongForJohnFinalMix.mp3

I'll post a thread when Part 4 has the audio but you can use it now, and also when the Indian Slide Technique using Lydian is complete.

Enjoy!!!
 
JonR

JonR

Member
Messages
15,974
Sid said:
damn now im itching to go back and try those out....am i crazy or is this the most beautiful mode of the major scale!!

very interesting on the out of key major chord.....I really like the sound of the lydian on the I chord itself...I wonder if I could try G Lydian on the last chord in this progression...Gadd9,Dsus4,Em6,G maj..I dunno what key its in though:D
Click to expand...
If you do, you'll be doing what jazz players have been doing for decades. ;)
The great thing about lydian mode on a tonic major (instead of the in-key Ionian) is that is has no "avoid notes". That means any note in the scale can be held over the chord without having to resolve it.
That's not the case with G ionian (major) on G. Play a jazzy Gmaj7 chord, and try holding a C note over it - ouch! C# sounds much better (at least if played fairly high.
Listen to the difference between these:

Gmaj7(11)
--8-----------------
--7-----------------
--7-----------------
--9-----------------
--10-----------------
-------------------
= uurgh!:eek:

Gmaj7#11
--9-----------------
--7-----------------
--7-----------------
--9-----------------
--10-----------------
-------------------
= N-i-i-i-c-e! :AOK:dude

BTW, your sequence - Gadd9,Dsus4,Em6,G maj - actually suggests G lydian throughout anyway. There's no C in any of the chords, and Em6 has a C# in it.
(Normally, in the G major key, you should use the G major scale throughout, only switch to lydian on the final G chord. Otherwise, it might just sound as if you are in the D major key, waiting for a final D chord...)
 
S

Sid

Member
Messages
3,430
gennation said:
Hey Sid, Mike Dodge here.

I'm glad that lesson clicked for you. Breaking the scales out that way can open up years of creativity, especially when you relate it to the other Modes/scales.

Hopefully you made it through a 3 parts of the tutorial. I have Part 4 just about ready for prime-time except for the audio recordings. Take a look at it here: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianPatterns4.htm

That lesson will hit on even a lot more for you, kind of from a different direction. It REALLY gets into all the add9 cords that the scale feeds off from. And it shows a progression that uses multiple Lydian scales to play form, IOW, VERY Modal.

I'm also working on a 3rd Indian Sliding Technique lesson explaining using the technique with the Lydian scale, this will cover quite a bit of stuff related to the Satch/Vai sound.

The Lydian scale is a scale of expression more so than a "licks based out of Lydian" that a lot of others scale can fall into. Here's a few musical examples that the scale just breaths in:

Here it's used as complete expression over a drone backing. Many people think the Lydian is very bright and ajor sounding, this clip sompletely disspells that thought. Here it creates a very dark atmosphere: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD1/elydian.mp3

Here it's use direct in the Steve Vai vein (note, the ending chords sequence is the chord progression example in Part 4 link): http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/LimitedAbility_NotFinished.mp3

Here it's used in a modern Jazz tune. The chords are Cmaj9-Am9-Cmaj7 essentially. Lydian is used in the main melody as well as ANY time in solo'ing over the Cmaj9 and Cmaj7 chords. You can really "hang on the #4" over this progression, the guitar, bass, and mandolin do it quite a bit in this tune. This is a tune were you can definitely use Lydian over the "I chord".: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/SongForJohnFinalMix.mp3

I'll post a thread when Part 4 has the audio but you can use it now, and also when the Indian Slide Technique using Lydian is complete.

Enjoy!!!
Click to expand...

Mike...you're the man....Im at work but Im itchin to go back and listen to those recordings and learn learn....thanks again for this awesome lesson....

One of the main reasons I could really understand the importance of modes with an untrained ear...was cos you broke it down into pentatonic forms....I think for someone who is just getting into modes...its really important....baby steps....getting an idea of the most important tones before th extra color really helped me understand the differences...otherwise I knew they sounded different....but putting my finger on the mood was very difficult......

As you so rightfully pointed out...the Lydian can be happy or dark....depending on how much emphasis is laid on the b5(I like to use this rather than #4)...

When I play a Lydian scale...I tend to associate it with pondering or even brooding....just sets up that mood for me....

great stuff man keep it coming.....Im not able to access your music forum on the website....is it coming up soon?

cheers
sid
 
S

Sid

Member
Messages
3,430
JonR said:
If you do, you'll be doing what jazz players have been doing for decades. ;)
The great thing about lydian mode on a tonic major (instead of the in-key Ionian) is that is has no "avoid notes". That means any note in the scale can be held over the chord without having to resolve it.
That's not the case with G ionian (major) on G. Play a jazzy Gmaj7 chord, and try holding a C note over it - ouch! C# sounds much better (at least if played fairly high.
Listen to the difference between these:

Gmaj7(11)
--8-----------------
--7-----------------
--7-----------------
--9-----------------
--10-----------------
-------------------
= uurgh!:eek:

Gmaj7#11
--9-----------------
--7-----------------
--7-----------------
--9-----------------
--10-----------------
-------------------
= N-i-i-i-c-e! :AOK:dude

BTW, your sequence - Gadd9,Dsus4,Em6,G maj - actually suggests G lydian throughout anyway. There's no C in any of the chords, and Em6 has a C# in it.
(Normally, in the G major key, you should use the G major scale throughout, only switch to lydian on the final G chord. Otherwise, it might just sound as if you are in the D major key, waiting for a final D chord...)
Click to expand...

Ah so basically I made a progression in G Lydian?? well thats interesting....

is it wierd that the main song is in E Lydian? and I use this as an intro....I play completely by ear so I dont really know wat chord it is until I sit and write out the notes....

say...what kinda fingering would you use for those chords?I have idiotically fingers and a palm I could slap a clown with....so Im finding it difficult to play those chords...:crazy

thanks for the analysis

cheers
sid
 
G

gennation

Member
Messages
8,041
Sid said:
Mike...you're the man....Im at work but Im itchin to go back and listen to those recordings and learn learn....thanks again for this awesome lesson....

One of the main reasons I could really understand the importance of modes with an untrained ear...was cos you broke it down into pentatonic forms....I think for someone who is just getting into modes...its really important....baby steps....getting an idea of the most important tones before th extra color really helped me understand the differences...otherwise I knew they sounded different....but putting my finger on the mood was very difficult......

As you so rightfully pointed out...the Lydian can be happy or dark....depending on how much emphasis is laid on the b5(I like to use this rather than #4)...

When I play a Lydian scale...I tend to associate it with pondering or even brooding....just sets up that mood for me....

great stuff man keep it coming.....Im not able to access your music forum on the website....is it coming up soon?

cheers
sid
Click to expand...

Pentatonic-izing the Major scales is a heavy aspect of Vai and Satch (whether they explain it that way or not). But their playing always sounds so melodic but almost like general Pentatonic licks. The reason being is that there's a ton of Pentatonic-type maps across the fretboard that are WAY beyond the basic 5-position linear Pentatonics most people most people are shown. Of course it's all the same thing, but this is such a fresh way of breaking out those Diatonic scales in to nice little usable scale fragments.

It ends up being a TON of scales inside the full scale.

I think you'll really like lesson 4. Let me know what you think of it since it's not really posted yet but close to being done.

As for my forum, my forum hoster disappeared before Thanksgiving. So, everything is gone :( I have most of the good stuff backed up though, but not everything. I need to remove that link from my site cause I don't think it's coming back, bummer.
 
S

Sid

Member
Messages
3,430
gennation said:
Pentatonic-izing the Major scales is a heavy aspect of Vai and Satch (whether they explain it that way or not). But their playing always sounds so melodic but almost like general Pentatonic licks. The reason being is that there's a ton of Pentatonic-type maps across the fretboard that are WAY beyond the basic 5-position linear Pentatonics most people most people are shown. Of course it's all the same thing, but this is such a fresh way of breaking out those Diatonic scales in to nice little usable scale fragments.

It ends up being a TON of scales inside the full scale.

I think you'll really like lesson 4. Let me know what you think of it since it's not really posted yet but close to being done.

As for my forum, my forum hoster disappeared before Thanksgiving. So, everything is gone :( I have most of the good stuff backed up though, but not everything. I need to remove that link from my site cause I don't think it's coming back, bummer.
Click to expand...

The fourth lesson is absolutely killer man....really goes into what I wanted to learn...any soundclips for the same?....thanks for taking the time to come up with these lessons.....really helpful for someone whos been playing rock all his life....

I was wondering.....do you have any recordings of yourself playing over the changes in the fourth lessons...would really like to hear some ideas of how to put this training method into practice elegantly.....

I dunno if this is exactly right or not....but I like to play the Lydian over simple chords/triads...rather than...say....a m6add9 or something....the tones of the lydian seem to stand out more over simple chords....
 
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