Kemper owners and potential buyers, how important is an editor to you?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by ColdFrixion, Apr 15, 2018.

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How important is an editor for the KPA?

  1. I won't buy a Kemper without it

  2. Very Important

  3. I want one

  4. I can take it or leave it

  5. Not important

  6. I don't want one

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  1. poison7512

    poison7512 Member

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    Right. Thats why I set up all of my Performances on the computer using Rig Manager. So no, setting it up on the front panel is not the only way to arrange your setlist. You can drag and drop in the Rig Manager as well...

    So you're using the same clean tone for every song you need a clean sound and youre setting up 50+ Performances? Sounds like you need 1 performance with 5 profiles and various FX in each. All can be done RIGHT NOW in seconds using Rig Manager just like with Axe Edit. Even if you want to set up 50 Performances how is using Axe Edit easier than Rig Manager? For organization they work almost identically...
     
    garybearkim likes this.
  2. poison7512

    poison7512 Member

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    Do you need a software update? On my Kemper all I have to do is SAVE the Preset once I tweak it on a Profile. Then those changes are reflected across every Profile that uses that Preset. I guarantee you this method is quicker than clicking through Rigs on a computer and making the changes individually.
     
  3. Ingolf

    Ingolf Member

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    Nope. As is presets can't be replaced or overwritten, only profiles can.
    This is, admittedly, awkward, and @flyingheelhook 's complaint is understandable.
     
  4. themightyjay

    themightyjay Member

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    Absolutely wrong on all counts.

    Yes you can arrange performances in rig manager but currently it replaces one for the other in the slot. You can't move a performance between two other slots which would be the intuitive way to do it, hence why I need to use the front panel.

    And I don't need one performance, I need multiple performances to accommodate the wildly different effects I use for each song. I use the same profiles so it's not jarring tone wise between each track. You can't be serious if you think doing all this on a computer editor wouldn't be easier.
     
  5. LordByron

    LordByron The Dude abides! Supporting Member

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    Not having one didn't keep me from buying the Kemper, but MAN do I want one. It would really be a huge workflow improvement for me.
     
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  6. poison7512

    poison7512 Member

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    LOL except youre completely incorrect, or using an old version of Rig Manager.

    You may want to read this for confirmation since you dont believe me for some reason: https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/26651-Moving-performances-around-rig-manager/ OR you could just actually try it on Rig Manager and see that you can drag and drop to organize...


    OK you rely on having a lot of effects and obviously having 4-8 effects available per Rig isn't enough for your needs somehow. Either way dialing in Effects with a mouse turning a virtual pot is WAY more clunky and time consuming than just loading an Effect and twisting physical knobs on the Kemper itself. So YES, Im serious. Youre wasting time by using a computer. The Kemper front panel UI is ALMOST as easy as using an actual amp. SERIOUSLY.
     
  7. Mango Positive

    Mango Positive Member

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    I don't really have a use for an editor. I'm waiting on the HX Effects editor so I don't have to keep bending down, but I'm not really using the Kemper's effects. If I were, I'd probably want an editor. For amps, I don't really see the point.
     
  8. lespauled

    lespauled Member

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    For me, there is no need for an editor. The Kemper is laid out very intuitively. My only gripe is that I wish there was another way to look for an effect. Instead of scrolling through a bunch of other types of effects, have the left control give you a choice of type, then the right scrolls through the options of that type. Hell, they could use one of the buttons for that also.
     
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  9. ColdFrixion

    ColdFrixion Member

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    Have you ever tried to dial in a specific frequency with a Studio EQ using the front panel knob?

    It takes about 15 spins of the Browse knob to choose a Phaser effect vs. two clicks of a mouse from a dropdown menu. Never mind sorting through presets. Hopefully you wouldn't suggest that profile management is easier via the front panel vs. Rig Manager.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  10. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

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    Seriously. I don't get being so stubborn as to not admit fault with something. You can still dig the h#ll out of a piece of gear and still recognize room for improvement :eek: [​IMG]
     
  11. themightyjay

    themightyjay Member

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    I don’t need to read a thread on it, I’ve got rig manager open in front of me. I don’t think you’re grasping what I need to do.

    Say as an example I have 10 performances. I want to move performance 1 to a slot between 5 & 6. This is absolutely not possible. All I can do is swap one performance with another.

    And again you don’t get it. I’m not talking about changing effects. I’m talking about leaving the effects set up how I like them and changing the amp profile. You have to do this by locking, selecting the amp, unlocking, rinse and repeat until finished then saving for each performance. Editing this way on the front panel is a massive ball ache.
     
  12. acroberts

    acroberts Member

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    The longer I use my Kemper, the easier it is to dial up a profile with effects that I like. I could live without an editor, but I'd use one a ton if it were available.

    The reality is that it seems pathetic to me that a 7-year-old, $1,900 digital product doesn't have an editor. Hell, I'm envious of the editor of the $299 Atomic Amplifire Box.

    Last, there can be a lot of knob twiddling and button mashing to get dialed in on the Kemper. I get concerned about long-term component stability. While reading the Kemper forums and a few Kemper-related FB groups the past few couple of years, there seems to be more folks sending their units back in for faulty hardware in my reading hear than I see elsewhere with other units - Fractal (I have an AX8) and Helix.
     
  13. poison7512

    poison7512 Member

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    It sounds like that EQ needs the encoder acceleration tweaked because the Kemper does this spectacularly. So its literally NOT an issue being precise with the Kemper knobs. Are you assuming that EVERY "studio EQ" has a digital front end? Or even most?

    Adding an Effect from the front panel may take a few seconds longer, but actually dialing those in (you know, the part that takes the most time) is easier from the front panel than it ever would be with a computer editor.

    Ever try to work on a computer with a touchscreen and no keyboard/mouse? Physical controls are almost ALWAYS better for editing. (assuming the FW handles encoder rotation/acceleration properly)
     
  14. flyingheelhook

    flyingheelhook Member

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    No comment @poison7512?
     
  15. ColdFrixion

    ColdFrixion Member

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    I'm not alone. Others have mentioned it on the Kemper forums.

    "Studio EQ" is simply the name given to the EQ by Kemper, though it stands to reason that the ability to dial in a specific frequency would be expected of an EQ with a digital interface.

    It takes upwards of 7 seconds to spin the browse knob approx. 15 (or more) times, and some effects have multiple pages. Further, efficiency drops when adding and dialing in multiple effects per profile. Compare that with two clicks of a mouse button to select an effect from a dropdown menu and, in the case of Axe-Edit, having access to three or four times as many parameters on a single page.

    Yes, which is one reason I don't use touch screens, though the primary and more practical reason is because my monitor is situated between my Mackies, nearly 3 feet away from the listening position, and my Kemper rack is located even further.

    This is potentially true when there are corresponding knobs for nearly every parameter, such as large mixing consoles and guitar amplifiers. It's not always better with respect to hardware that uses a digital interface with 20x (or more) the number of parameters vs. physical knobs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  16. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

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    Never used one. Probably wouldn't mind one, but it's not required either. UI is fairly simple enough and there are no real deep edit options to worry about going 15 pages in menus to get to.
     
  17. Dimi84

    Dimi84 Member

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    It's understandable why debates over an editor have become unsufferable to many. It doesn't get better when there's no feedback from kemper themselves.

    I myself consider an editor very important. Other things come first (such as profiling accuracy) but editor is a close second. There are reasons why editors have become as common -- industry standard, almost -- and challenges brought up by regular use (at least a variety of uses) of kemper is an illustration of this

    Cheerios
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  18. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    This +1T(era)

    Incredibly, in order to try a new cab you still have to load it on an USB stick through a computer, and load it through a port of the Profiler. And, in order to delete a bunch of them you have to manually do that cab by cab, unless you want to go through a more convoluted process which requires to save a backup, open it via a viable tool, modify it and restore it :confused: ).

    Also, there's no way o_O to edit a preset: in order to do so, you have to create a new one with the same name, then go search the original one (paying attention to not delete the homonym last one you have just made!) and delete it :eek:

    What I sorely miss:
    • A robust preset management service (mainly for cabs but also everything flyingheelhook listed) that allowed to copy, delete, move, collect, list, edit, rename them;
    • a way to tell merged from studio rigs and cabs (there's none ATM unless you rely on a good-will tagging!);
    • the possibility to choose a Type of effect and have the Browse knob search through that type of effect only (currently, Browser will go through all the (hundreds of) presets you have loaded... and if automatic load is active, load them while you sweep through them (which means play them: imagine a heavy metal distortion preset... I was about to break a monitor because of this);
    • [O/T]: the global Noise Gate not being locked when you lock the input (which is mandatory if you don't want that loading any rig changes for example the Clean Sens and Distorted Sens values, which you have carefully set in order to match your guitar with the Profiler).
      The way it is now, by locking the Input you can superimpose your CS and DS values to any rig you load, but this will also superimpose the pre-set Noise Gate value.
      IMO, NG has nothing (or very little) to do with the guitar, it being most related to rigs (your desire to gate the noise is of course much more related to how distorted the rig is than to how intrinsically noisy your guitar is). In short, NS should be an attribute of the rig, not of the Input; or, at least, be doubled, like they did for Pure Cabinet (and it took a good while before they realized that a global Pure Cabinet setting had little if not no sense);
    • [O/T]: low-pass and high-pass filters should have their natural site in the Cabinet parameters IME, because for those who go direct (or use a linear audio system) there is where you sculpt your sound and cut those frequencies that make a mic'ed cab (typically frizzy and often bottom-heavy) sound good through a mixer\PA\ monitor.
    Basically, when I compare Kemper's philosophy with say Line6', it appears most clear that one of the two firms have the guitar player (and their daily experience and needs) in mind.
    And, sadly, the way they interact on forums couldn't be more different as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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  19. DonRoeber

    DonRoeber Member

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    I'm in the process of switching over from a Helix to a Kemper. So far, I've found the Kemper faster and easier (for me, not everyone) to use the controls on the device. The Helix I always felt like I was still fiddling with something. I got the Kemper on a Wednesday night, and played it at rehearsal on Thursday night.

    With the Helix, the editor unlocked the ability to comfortably build complicated 'rigs'. The Kemper seems a little simpler overall, which for me is a boon. I'm sure an editor would be useful, but it doesn't feel as necessary as it did with the Helix.
     
  20. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Don, have you already tried and manage a collection of cabs or other presets (for example fx or I/O)?
     

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