Kemper Profiler / Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Help

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
I recently purchased a Kemper Profiler and initially ran it through a tube power amp into a few different traditional guitar cabs. I was impressed with the tones of many of the profiles (with the cab sims turned off). I read everything I could about the Kemper which lead to curiosity about using a frfr.

I am currently demoing the Kemper through a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 which from what I read was a quality option. So far, I am not happy with the tones. I hope someone with experience regarding this pairing might steer me to better results.

With my tube power amp and guitar cabs (and cab sim disabled), I did not have to tweak profiles in order to enjoy the tone. With the Gemini 2, this is not the case. The tones seem overly bassy and the high end seems too thin. I have tried leaving the Kemper cab sims active and the Gemini set to flat. Some of the clean profiles sound good, but the gainy ones do not. I also tried disabling the Kemper cab sims and setting the Gemini to cabinet, but the sound was still not very good.

I called Mission Engineering to make sure I have the Kemper and Gemini 2 connected correctly and confirmed my understanding of the functions.

I assume I must be missing something. Has anyone else experienced what I am? Maybe tweaking the profiles is needed? Any and all input is appreciated.

Thanks
 

tvegas99

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,694
many of us that use modeling just don't like FRFR, we are too accustomed to what we've been hearing from guitar cabs... this subject has been discussed and debated more than any other issue surrounding modeling imho, there is no right answer

I went down the FRFR rabbit hole for a couple of years, in the end I chose to go Kemper Powered Toaster straight to FOH with an IR ... and running it through a V30 1x12 or 2x12 onstage (bypassing the IR) ... this makes me incredibly happy, FOH gets a killer sound for the mix and it sounds great out front and I'm happy with what I hear onstage, win-win

Lastly, I will say with no smartass intention meant, at this point... if you are happy with one thing why not stick with it?

How are a bunch of strangers who know nothing of your experience, expectations or preference supposed to help you? If you are happy with guitar cabs do yourself a favor and stop with the FRFR experimentation... FRFR will != guitar cab
 

Jay Mitchell

Member
Messages
5,643
I am currently demoing the Kemper through a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 which from what I read was a quality option. So far, I am not happy with the tones. I assume I must be missing something. Has anyone else experienced what I am? Maybe tweaking the profiles is needed? Any and all input is appreciated.
Here are the basics. What follows is not specific to any modeler/profiler/processor nor to any model of loudspeaker.

1. In principle, a full range monitor should provide a transparent representation of the electrical signal applied to its input. In practice, this goal is never perfectly achieved. It is possible to get extremely close, but how close your monitor gets is unknown.

2. In principle, a modeler (or "profiler," functionally the same thing) that simulates an amp/cab combination will produce a convincing replica of the sound of a given amp/cab when played through a neutral, full range monitor.

Given the above two noncontroversial facts, if you don't like the sound of your modeler as heard through your monitor, there are two possible contributors to the problem:

1. The monitor is not reproducing its input signal with sufficient transparency.

2. The signal coming from the modeler is not doing a good job of emulating the sound of the amp/cab represented in the preset/profile you're using.

To diagnose, there are two steps you should take:

1. With the monitor in an appropriate position/aiming (aimed upward at your ears from the floor or elevated to ear level and aimed at your ears), play tracks of recorded music that you know intimately. If the sound you hear has no unpleasant artifacts and is articulate and balanced, then the monitor is doing a good job. Otherwise, not.

2. Play your modeler through a speaker you know to be neutral. A small, quality recording monitor will do. If the sound is satisfactory, then the modeler is doing a good job. Otherwise, not.

In many cases, it is a combination of both elements that causes unpleasantness. It is productive to separate your corrective efforts into two categories: 1) improving the behavior of the monitor - which is best done using the aforementioned known recordings as test material, and 2) dialing in the modeler.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
many of us that use modeling just don't like FRFR, we are too accustomed to what we've been hearing from guitar cabs... this subject has been discussed and debated more than any other issue surrounding modeling imho, there is no right answer

I went down the FRFR rabbit hole for a couple of years, in the end I chose to go Kemper Powered Toaster straight to FOH with an IR ... and running it through a V30 1x12 or 2x12 onstage (bypassing the IR) ... this makes me incredibly happy, FOH gets a killer sound for the mix and it sounds great out front and I'm happy with what I hear onstage, win-win

Lastly, I will say with no smartass intention meant, at this point... if you are happy with one thing why not stick with it?

How are a bunch of strangers who know nothing of your experience, expectations or preference supposed to help you? If you are happy with guitar cabs do yourself a favor and stop with the FRFR experimentation... FRFR will != guitar cab

Thanks for the response. What you wrote makes sense to me. As I wrote, many things I read made me curious if I was missing something by using my tube power amp and traditional cab versus the frfr route. I am confident that I have the Kemper/Gemini connected correctly, so I thought maybe someone would chime in if profile tweaking or some other secret adjustments were necessary. The Kemper sounds great through my tube power amp/traditional guitar cab, head phones, and pretty good through my cheap studio monitors. With the Gemini, I just do not like what I am hearing. Unless, I learn something new, I will be returning the Gemini soon. Thanks again for the input and thoughts.
 

Jay Mitchell

Member
Messages
5,643
The Kemper sounds .... pretty good through my cheap studio monitors. With the Gemini, I just do not like what I am hearing.
It follows, then, that the responses of the speakers in question differ substantially. If you trust your studio monitors, they should become your reference for auditioning other monitors.
 

stratotone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,517
If you have a Guitar Center or the equivalent nearby, bring your Kemper there and try out a number of different powered monitors. That's what I did, and the lowly Alto sounded great to me. Your mileage and taste may vary but it's an easy way to try out a number of monitors.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
If you have a Guitar Center or the equivalent nearby, bring your Kemper there and try out a number of different powered monitors. That's what I did, and the lowly Alto sounded great to me. Your mileage and taste may vary but it's an easy way to try out a number of monitors.

I do and will. I had read about the Alto's during my research. If they are in stock at my local GC, then I will check them out and maybe the Yamaha DRX's as well. In the end, I do enjoy the Kemper through my tube power amp and guitar cabs (particularly my Bogner 2x12), so if FRFR's don't work for me, I can still use and enjoy the Kemper.

Thanks again for all the informative replies!
 

MangoMango

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
669
I just tried the G2 and had a similar experience. I find it boomy and somewhat lacking in detail and clarity.
Instead of tweaking individual profiles you can try adjusting the global EQ in the output section. Minor tweaks to the presence might help in addition rolling back the bass or treble.
FWIW I had a Friedman prior to the the G2 and it sounded great with no adjustments.
I also enjoy using a traditional cab and turning the cab off on the Kemper. They are completely different ways to go as other have mentioned and while I enjoy that option I feel the distorted tones don't have the sophistication and personality they do when played frfr.
To me many sound alike after a while.
This has driven me back to look for another frfr to try.
Hoping my next choice will get me closer to what I hear in headphones.
 
Last edited:

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
I just tried the G2 and had a similar experience. I find it boomy and somewhat lacking in detail and clarity.
Instead of tweaking individual profiles you can try adjusting the global EQ in the output section. Minor tweaks to the presence might help in addition rolling back the bass or treble.
FWIW I had a Friedman prior to the the G2 and it sounded great with no adjustments.
I also enjoy using a traditional cab and turning the cab off on the Kemper. They are completely different ways to go as other have mentioned and while I enjoy that option I feel the distorted tones don't have the sophistication and personality they do when played frfr.
To me many sound alike after a while.
This has driven me back to look for another frfr to try.
Hoping my next choice will get me closer to what I hear in headphones.

Thank you for this reply. At least I know I am not alone in my tonal experience with the G2. May I ask why you did not continue with the Friedman ASM 12? Did you use it with cab sims on? Is the Friedman a frfr option for you going forward?

Thanks again!
 

MangoMango

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
669
Yes, the G2 concept is exceptional but its not quite perfected IMHO.
The Friedman is a great cab.
It does bass well but i found the highs to be a little dull.
Its funny because most FRFR have no bass and the highs are harsh.
At higher volume i preferred to keep the bass cut off but the amp struggled. More like a "loudness" switch but with it on it was too thin for me.
The Friedman moves air nicely and is really a great choice. I would buy one again.
I did just get a CLR today. It has exceeded my expections and the more i play it the more i'm enamored.
It has amazing clarity. The bass, mids and treble are so well balanced. it has punch and sparkle with a pretty wide 3D "non-beaming" quality.
Have to to admit...i'm impressed.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
Yes, the G2 concept is exceptional but its not quite perfected IMHO.
The Friedman is a great cab.
It does bass well but i found the highs to be a little dull.
Its funny because most FRFR have no bass and the highs are harsh.
At higher volume i preferred to keep the bass cut off but the amp struggled. More like a "loudness" switch but with it on it was too thin for me.
The Friedman moves air nicely and is really a great choice. I would buy one again.
I did just get a CLR today. It has exceeded my expections and the more i play it the more i'm enamored.
It has amazing clarity. The bass, mids and treble are so well balanced. it has punch and sparkle with a pretty wide 3D "non-beaming" quality.
Have to to admit...i'm impressed.

The CLR sounds interesting. I wish I could find one local to try out. Keep us posted on your experience with the CLR/Kemper combo. Thanks.
 

jjb

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
98
The CLR sounds interesting. I wish I could find one local to try out. Keep us posted on your experience with the CLR/Kemper combo. Thanks.
I use my CLR's with my Kemper and my Amplifire - one word - awesome.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
I use my CLR's with my Kemper and my Amplifire - one word - awesome.
When using the CLR with your Kemper, do profiles from the rig exchange require much tweaking? Thanks for the info!
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
I tried an Alto TS12 today at GC. I really did not expect to like it but was surprised. I also tried a K12 which sounded pretty good. Without tweaking at all, both sounded better than the Gemini 2 (which shocks me and I do not understand). Comparing the two I demo's today, I thought the K12 sounded better on clean profiles and the Alto better on dirty profiles. I think for the money I will go with the Alto.
 

maydaynyc

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,225
I've said this in other posts so apologies if you've read me writing this before but before giving up just check to make sure you are listening back through the system at the same volume that you created the patches. In my experience patches created at low volume always sound bassy, muddy and don't cut through at gig volumes. High end can be piercing as well. If after tweaking the eq at gig playing volume you still don't like the sound, I vote go back to what you like and know works for you.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
I've said this in other posts so apologies if you've read me writing this before but before giving up just check to make sure you are listening back through the system at the same volume that you created the patches. In my experience patches created at low volume always sound bassy, muddy and don't cut through at gig volumes. High end can be piercing as well. If after tweaking the eq at gig playing volume you still don't like the sound, I vote go back to what you like and know works for you.

Thanks for the input!
 

jjb

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
98
When using the CLR with your Kemper, do profiles from the rig exchange require much tweaking? Thanks for the info!
I am currently using MBritt profiles and they require minimal tweaking. Often none in fact.
 

m~Dan

Member
Messages
918
Can recommend MBritt profiles as well... when I play them at home I find them way too dull and thin sounding... but that's because they are made for playing live... which is usually way louder then @ home playing :D I usually don't tweak them at all for playing live.

I made some output presets for the Kemper... the "live preset" is MBritt profiles without any EQ tweaks, for playing at home I have a preset with Bass +1.5 Mids -1 Treble + 1.2 Presence +0.8 ... this somehow emulates the sound how it will sound loud quite well (with my inears).
 

Viabcroce

Member
Messages
2,716
When using the CLR with your Kemper, do profiles from the rig exchange require much tweaking? Thanks for the info!
I wish there was a direct and revealing answer to this question! But there's none. The CLR is probably the most transparent means to faithfully amplify a modeller in its price range, but tweaking (and in general liking a certain profile) is so subjective that you might trust the answer to your question only if it came a person whose tastes and instruments you know very well... and share.

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread s the cab's placement. Chances are you put the Gemini in a different spot than your guitar cab and\or your monitors?
A more extended frequency response makes the cab more sensitive to its placement: is it in a corner or maybe against a wall? Try to tilt it so you face the tweeter, and to move it far from walls\corners: things should notably change by tightening the low range and focusing highs more.
Note that also a small room might be responsible for this effect: if the Gemini is more extended\richer in the low region than your monitors, the room's frequency reinforcements might become unpleasant to your ears.

HTH

PS: You can try the CLR and return it.
 

Razor

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
321
Guys thanks for all the input!

As an update to my current situation with the Kemper, I have decided to go with the current line of Alto TS speakers as amplification for my Kemper. I picked one up to demo the other day and honestly have played more than I can recall since I was really young. There may be better choices to use with the Kemper, but I am very happy with the Alto. My search is over (for the time being). I was skeptical about the whole frfr theory, however, I now understand what others been raving about. I almost gave up after demoing the Gemini.
 




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