Kempler Power or no Power

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Papajuice, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. Papajuice

    Papajuice Silver Supporting Member

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    Have been toying with the idea of getting a Kempler for use at church. My question is the power unit worth the extra. At church it would be direct and no need for extra power but at home I would only have one of my Bassman's to run it through. Woould they color it enough to make a difference?
     
  2. phel21

    phel21 Member

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    A multiband EQ may be used to flatten the characteristics of an amp/cab combination, but anything else than a full-range amplifier and cabinet will color the sound to some extent.

    I personally prefer to keep the amp separate from the KPA because I consider it essential to be able to match the amp and cab, and I want my gear as compact an light-weight as possible. There are other bits I would rather have integrated in the KPA than a poweramp.
     
  3. C-4

    C-4 Member

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    I am saving for a KPA now, but I like the Camplifier 2/90/2 stereo power amp module better then one 600 watt mono built in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  4. SG_Seth

    SG_Seth Member

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    It's just your preference. I saw it as cost vs convenience. I prefer the built in amp and was willing to pay the extra $$$.
     
  5. suckamc

    suckamc Member

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    I finally played the powered one (w/some guitar cabs) and...meh. It sounded like the the real problem was the "cooked-innedness" of the cabinet into the profiles rather than the quality of the power amp (which I'm sure is great). Leaving the cabinet button on was, predictably, too phasey and muddy. But turning it off sounded way too close to a direct amp w/no cab at all, as if the Kemper's educated guess at which part of the profile was contributed by the cab and mic was WAY off (this was with lots of my favorite profiles...almost all "semi-clean" in nature). But I'd be eager to try it w/v.3 of the firmware, now that it will let you profile the amp separately. I'd bet that fixes the problem.
     
  6. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Hello Papajuice,

    IMO 600 W are way oversized for anything, unless you find (and are brave enough to use) a 1000W cab!

    I went a much cheaper route with an Ambrosi ATM-69: ended up spending half the price and get 121 dB 1W\1m with my Dragoon 2x12".

    As for the Bassman, any guitar\bass amp would colour the sound, but unless you look for a match between the sounds you need at the church and the ones you use at home, you can do that. Before getting the Ambrosi I used an old FTB bass\keyboard combo 1x12", and I was always able to find beautiful sounds.
    Keep in mind that you can eq the output and save presets for the different amps\venues\rooms.

    @suckamc: Perhaps I'm missing something, but how can a Profiler through a real guitar cab sound like there's no cab? :eek:
    Anyway, many things in this respect have changed with the new "differential profiling" implemented in FW 3.

    :)
     
  7. SG_Seth

    SG_Seth Member

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    V3 solves the issue of running the Kemper into a guitar cab. However, I much prefer the sound of the full profile going through a FRFR system (I have a passive Mission Gemini 1P which is fantastic and moderately priced).

    The 600 watts is overkill, but there's no harm running it through a lower wattage speaker as long as you keep the volume reasonable. Many FRFR systems have built in protection in the event the wattage is exceeded so the high wattage of the Kemper power amp isn't really an issue.

    There are certainly cheaper alternatives than the Kemper power amp ($700 price increase), but again it's all about your personal preference and convenience requirements. There's nothing wrong with running the 600w Kemper power amp through a lower wattage speaker system.

    If you don't want to mess with the Kemper power amp or an external amp, you could just buy a powered FRFR system, but you're going to be spending around the same amount as the built in power amp upgrade on a powered speaker that is not nearly as flexible.

    Just my opinion of course.
     
  8. suckamc

    suckamc Member

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    If the EQ shift caused by removing the supposed cab part of the profile (of course, the Kemper could have no idea what precisely that contribution is) is too extreme in the "no cab" direction, you'd still be left with a sound that is as I described (which was not as simple as "there was no cab sound").
     
  9. RLD

    RLD Member

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    ^
    Mark, how do you normally use a KPA?
    I think some of your vids are a Kemper...yes?
     
  10. suckamc

    suckamc Member

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    Yeah, all recordings (and in-ear gigs) are now w/the Kemper. I just use the analog out into my Metric Halo LIO-8. Granted, that's an extra conversion stage, but the MH's conversion is top notch so it's not noticeable.

    On a live gig w/no in-ears, I usually use a real amp. I'm fine with the sound of the Kempler coming through the wedges, but I've had other band members/leaders say that they miss the sound of an actual guitar amp onstage rather than just the guitar coming through PA gear. I also tried an FRFR (QSC) for a while but that was the same story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  11. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    The cost seems high to me, a 600w class D amp should not cost $700. For that kind of bread I'd get the Fryette Power Station (50w tube) and put another $100 into the cabinet I want.
     
  12. SG_Seth

    SG_Seth Member

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    Agreed that the price is high, but the convenience was worth it.
     
  13. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    I am afraid it still is. As a premise, I have never seen a passive cab with an overpower protection (they might well exist tho :) ).
    Most cabs are around the 50-100 W range. While it's true that we usually use a fraction of an amp's nominal power, you often find yourself in that twilight area where you'd want to go up with the volume but you have no idea about the level\power\voltage\SPL you're currently at. That's the dangerous area, specially with twanging cleans. Even outside that area, not knowing how much voltage\dB my 600W poweramp is outputting towards my 900€, 60W cab would make me a lot nervous

    :D



    Ah, ok, now it's clearer, thanks :)
    I've never had this experience, but I guess what you wrote makes sense.

    :)
     
  14. SG_Seth

    SG_Seth Member

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    I guess the extra power really doesn't concern me at all. I know if I'm running it into a 250w passive cab with a built in overpower protection I shouldn't crank the amp past 50%. I'm running it through a Mission Gemini 1P without issue and it sounds killer.
     
  15. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Fair enough! But you can't say how much voltage (specially the impulsive one) you're outputting by just looking at the volume knob, and this is the whole point I'm making :)

    Of course if the volume is low enough there are no issues. And there will be none until the cone breaks :D

    On a side note, I guess you meant "without an overpower protection"?
     
  16. SG_Seth

    SG_Seth Member

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    His sig states he's a beta tester for kemper so he probably has tried the powered version. However, he's also affiliated with Ambrosi who manufacturers an after market power amp for the Kemper so his bias may be showing through a little. I don't disagree with his points, but I think the concerns are a little exaggerated. I've done extensive investigation into this topic and have spoken with many reputable amp techs and FRFR cab builders and the general consensus is there's nothing wrong with running a 600w kemper into a lower wattage cab as long as you exercise a scintilla of common sense.

    I will say that if you have an unpowered head, the Mission Gemini powered cabs are absolutely incredible and come with a built in interface for direct recording (something the kemper lacks, but would greatly benefit from). I have no affiliation with Mission, but they have been very helpful to me and provide great customer service for their top notch products.
     
  17. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    No creative360, I have not :)


    We're not saying different things. As I wrote, of course if the volume is low enough there's no risk with any cab. What I am saying is that you don't know where the safety threshold is, and you might be on the edge in several real-world situations, specially with clean sounds.

    Also, I get the licit point of my potentially biased opinion :) But my vision is the other way around: I started my search for a smaller amp just for the reasons I'm explaining in this thread. I "conceived" The Ambrosi ATM series (and looked for an artisan able to build amps) just because I was looking for something that was not on the market yet.

    Funny enough, when I asked the main competitor about such a solution, I was answered that there was no market for it. ASA the Ambrosis come out, they started offering a 15-ish W retrofit power amp... LOL

    Back to the topic: I'm no way saying that the Kemper power amp is not good, I'm just stating that it has to be used with care because the average cab is way underrated in terms of loading.
    You do not have to speak with anyone to realize that if you overpower a cab you run the risk of damaging it, or that if you keep the power amp voltage below the safety threshold you won't damage the cab ;) It's not rocket science, and I'm not saying "buy an Ambrosi, to use the Kemper power amp is intrinsicly dangerous".

    Hope this clarifies my position :)

    BTW, alway snice to discuss things in a civil manner with fellow musicians :)
     
  18. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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