Kiesel Sends Cease & Desist to Harley Benton

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by mrilo, Feb 27, 2020.

  1. lowyaw

    lowyaw Member

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    Because, *I AM* the danger, *I AM* the one who knocks!
     
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  2. musicman1

    musicman1 Member

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    Good luck suing and winning over a non usa company for infringement. Im pretty sure hb couldnt care less.
     
  3. Tweedo

    Tweedo Silver Supporting Member

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    Doesn’t matter unless Kiesel has fixed their quality control. I’ve play a Carvin and Custom Kiesel. Carvin was as expected for a $800 custom spec’d guitar (not custom built) and fell way short on fit an finish. I played a buddies $2,500 Vader “custom shop” build and had a eeriely familar feel. Then a few months later I see others with the same gripe. This was 3-4 yrs ago give or take. It was as of their Carvin production line stuff and the custom Kiesel stuff was being finished by the same person. I like Jeff and what he’s trying to do with lineage of the Kiesel brand but damn dude make a consistent product.

    I guess what I’m saying is what good is a “cosmetic” law suit if you aren’t making a quality product in the first place.
     
    kebotrans likes this.
  4. StratMatt77

    StratMatt77 Member

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    When a person/business defends their trademark on an original work they have created and is being ripped off it doesn't make them "an evil money-grubbing corporation" to enforce their exclusive right to their work that they created.
    In trademark law the criteria is whether or not the product that looks like yours creates confusion for the consumer. Meaning, could the knock-off be confused for your original?

    Kiesel could actually be setting up a scenario where they fail to be able to protect their copyright in this case and then that is used BY KIESEL as a legal precedent to prove that, because their product has even less in common with the Gibson flying V than this HB has with theirs, Gibson has really got nuthin'.
    Ok, that is probably not at all what is happening... a little too "mad scientist" on my part!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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  5. caledoneus

    caledoneus Member

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    well, that's a bit of hypocrisy
     
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  6. Drew816

    Drew816 Member

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    We need a sarcasm button somewhere... I didn't miss it, K has a lot better case than Gibson would ever have as it's very clearly a copy; I just find the timing pretty hilarious.
     
    uab9253 and customguitars87 like this.
  7. handyman

    handyman Member

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    Harley Benton is Betty Crocker's ex husband. They got divorced after he got caught with Sara Lee on the side.
     
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  8. uab9253

    uab9253 Member

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    I do YT content and I'm 100% with you on the shills. Makes me actively not want to buy HB stuff.
     
  9. No_Stairway

    No_Stairway Supporting Member

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    So who gets to sue over the shape of a dreadnaught?
     
  10. Naigewron

    Naigewron Member

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    Kind of.

    Kiesel are supportive of copyrights and patents; they're claiming that Gibson doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the CaD they sent to Kiesel:

    1: The Kiesel V doesn't look much like a Gibson V, and in addition Kiesel have been building their V since before Gibson copyrighted their V shape

    2: The Kiesel "Les Paul" was offered after PRS won out vs Gibson back when Gibson went after them in the early 2000's. So in this case, Kiesel is claiming precedent in that Gibson has lost this fight before.

    Check this interview, where Jeff Kiesel goes into detail about why he thinks Gibson's CaD against Kiesel is bogus, but how he also fully supports guitar makers' rights to protect their designs:



    Edit: Didn't notice this thread was 6 pages; this may already have been posted. Oh well, it bears repeating since I feel it really clarifies how Kiesel can object to Gibson's treatment of Kiesel and yet turn around and go after Harley Benton.
     
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  11. metropolis_4

    metropolis_4 Member

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    So... to recap:

    1. Business A sends a cease and desist to Business B
    2. Business B uses the cease and desist for an internet PR campaign
    3. Business B sends a cease and desist to Business C

    In other words, businesses are acting like businesses?

    Why is that something we're all so shocked and outraged by? Sounds pretty typical to me. Pretty sure it happens all the time.
     
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  12. uab9253

    uab9253 Member

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    One of the greatest scenes in TV ever!
     
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  13. FiestaRed

    FiestaRed Supporting Member

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    I had to look that up. 1946 -- I didn't know they had been around for that long.
     
  14. TonePilot

    TonePilot Supporting Member

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    Title by @Blanket Jackson, lyrics by me.

    If the Gibson don't get you then the Keisel will
    The TGP forum is discussing this still
    Is Gibson plain nuts or just doing right?
    They're going to hit Keisel with all of their might

    "Don't pick on Keisel" scream the forum crowd
    The protests are angry, daily and loud
    The very next day another lawsuit's afoot
    TGP heart rates increase their output

    When will this end, what will be the result?
    TPG screams, "it's become quite a cult"
    No need for these 'suits, let's all get along
    I just want to go back to smoking my bong
     
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  15. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Hilarity...ripping a Steinberg GM...and wanting to call it their own.
    More hilarity...going after the low end brand owned by the biggest online retailer in the world.
    Just adorable...
     
  16. Blanket Jackson

    Blanket Jackson is Tio's favorite Silver Supporting Member

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    Wow ... encore!
    A very creative collection of lyrics, sir. Nice.

    Not sure if you "got" my original reference, but here is what I was alluding to (riffing on alley oop pass from @Jon Silberman although his comment was probably more germane to the discussion than mine). In no way detracting from your own lyrics, though!

     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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  17. Ted74

    Ted74 Member

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    UH OH you just started a lawyer race.
     
  18. uab9253

    uab9253 Member

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    Well, the retail thing I don't think they care so much about, being direct sales and all....
     
  19. runningman

    runningman Member

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    Carvin should send a cease & desist order to Kiesel.

    Some of those Kiesels look just like Carvins...
     
  20. agquake

    agquake Member

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    I’ll post a NGD thread in the not too distant future which will feature one of these HB models, solely because of Kiesel.
     
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