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Kiesel vader multiscale

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by fatoni, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. fatoni

    fatoni Member

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    Has anyone seen one of these things? I've always wanted one and that might be what it takes to get me to bite. Then again a conventional suhr build is a safe route for me. At a couple times the price of should be tough..
     
  2. cardinal

    cardinal Member

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    Definitely seems like it'd be a fun guitar. I know it's a dumb reason, but I can't get into them though because of the thought of how silly I (or IMHO anyone else) would look playing one. I have a hard time convincing myself that a guitar should look like that, even if it's cool in the abstract.
     
  3. Chris Pile

    Chris Pile Member

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    Only seen vids on YouTube...
     
  4. redgold

    redgold Supporting Member

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    When they offer a trem on the Vader, I'm in. Such a cool guitar. I think Kiesel is really knocking it out of the park recently.
     
  5. Ape Factory

    Ape Factory Member

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    I had nothing but standard guitars and on a whim, bought a headless multi-scale and it's the best decision I ever made. It's really on a different level than anything else I own and will cause you to rethink what a guitar can do and the so called parameters or specs which create great guitars. It'll violate most of the beliefs held on this very forum. I'd say go for it. If you don't order anything fancy, the base price on the Vader is fairly inexpensive.
     
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  6. redgold

    redgold Supporting Member

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    Is yours a 6 or 7 string?
     
  7. Ape Factory

    Ape Factory Member

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    Six. Seven strings is taking things one string too far for me at this point, LOL. Honestly the playability is excellent, super easy bends, tons of sustain and the attack...like no other guitar I've ever played. Now the caveat being mine is not a Kiesel but the Kiesel incorporates similar if not identical concepts. Sure it takes some adjustment for the multi scale as well as aesthetically, due to the lack of a headstock. But after really delving into the guitar and spending time with it, you realize it's how guitars should have been all along.
     
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  8. Brian Johnston

    Brian Johnston Member

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    I just got a 7-string multi-scale Vader. I am very impressed. The neck certainly is full size, but without the head stock and the body a touch smaller than usual, playing seems more 'intimate,' if that makes sense. I found the multi-scale, fan fret easy to get used to... within minutes. Excellent finishing touches and the action is very low... easy to play. The multi-scale also makes it easier to play than other 7-strings, in my experience... more even string tension allows for easier bending, for example.
     
  9. Soothsayer

    Soothsayer (Paul) Supporting Member

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    Love my Aries Multi-scale! I spec'd it out similar to my Suhr Modern Satin. The Vader would be similar to a Strandberg I would imagine.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. drewbledsoe

    drewbledsoe Member

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    Got one about a month ago and have been playing it non-stop ever since. Love it.

    VX6 is what you are looking for.

    Agree 100%

    Again totally agree. For the past 2 months these are all I've been playing. I tried playing my Strat a few weeks back and it just felt too big, too heavy, and too bulky/clunky by comparison. Same goes for my 2007 R9. I'm totally converted. Finally understand what Holdsworth was getting at when trying to explain why he dug small bodied headless guitars so much.

    My VX6 and VM7.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. johnnyb128

    johnnyb128 Member

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    Your timing in responding to this is impeccable for me, I’m currently doing the daily browse of reverb and Kiesel’s website and almost ready to pull the trigger. I’m looking at the 7 string multiscale Vader and wondering a few things, would love to hear from you or anyone else who owns one.

    I’m not a seven string guy but wanted the 7 just to monkey around with, my rationale is to future proof myself in a way, once I’m ready for 7. My only concern regarding 6 vs 7 is wrapping my thumb around the headstock and getting over to that 6th string if I’m intend on initially mostly using it as a 6er. I have pretty large hands and have no issue on a thick neck Les Paul but curious what your experience is with it. Does the neck feel super wide? Based on the measurement it’s not a significant amount wider than a Fender Strat but in practice I think it may be different. You’ve got a 6 and 7 but I can’t justify both (I wish I could) so does my idea of standard tuning the top 6 and ignoring the 7th initially even make sense?

    Secondly is the big one, multiscale. I’ve read and researched a lot and it sound like a great thing for a lot of players and most have no issue adjusting. What are your thoughts on that adjustment period and do you swap back and forth between standard scale guitars and the multiscale with ease? I ask because I’m relatively new to guitar(playing significant amounts only in the last year and a half) and I still consider myself an advanced beginner at most....will multiscale impede my progress in your estimation, given your own experience with it?

    Lastly, I don’t want to wait and am looking at Kiesels guitars in stock. Any negatives to report on that front? Would you say I’m probably buying someone’s castoff or are my suspicious correct that they’re making some standard models for regular sale on there as new? It seems like there are a lot of 7 multiscales with basic specs and colors up there and only a few tricked out ones, which are I’m sure the rejected custom built ones.

    Love both of your Vaders and again that multiscale just looks right on the guitar. I used to be so anti headless, I think residual from seeing Phil Collins led Genesis videos as a kid and thinking Rutherford looked like a dork with his headless. Now they’re beautiful in my eyes...at least the Vader is for sure and I kinda like the Strandberg but want to buy American. I can admit I was wrong.

    Sorry for the wall of text and thanks in advance for any info! Lot of questions and I don’t expect you to answer all, even one would be helpful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  12. drewbledsoe

    drewbledsoe Member

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    This is all IMO and based on my personal experience.

    I had 43 years under my belt before I picked up the VM7 and it's been a bit of a struggle. It's way too easy to just start playing chugga chugga chords using the low B as the root because it sounds so cool. But that will hold back your normal progress on the instrument. Get super familar and comfy with 6 strings - both with soloing and chordal work all over the neck before taking on 7.

    As far as multiscale goes, it took me all of 10-15 minutes to adapt to it. It's really no big deal. Takes a bit more stretching on the lower frets, and is a little awkward up past the 17th fret but otherwise it's no big deal and sounds killer adding a ton of girth to chords using root notes on the 6th string. Again, you have to factor in I have a ton more years on you playing-wise so me being able to adapt so quickly might not apply for you.

    If I were you I'd custom order to make sure you get exactly what you want (I can help with this if you want). The guitars they have "in stock" have all shipped out to someone, been played to some sort of degree, and then shipped back to Kiesel. Why were they returned? How much abuse did they endure between leaving the factory and returning to it? Are they tonal duds?

    A big problem with having so many options like Kiesel offers is that folks will custom order all kinds of weird combinations that in the end don't sound good from a tone standpoint.

    Both of mine are simple. Alder bodies, maple tops and necks, medium jumbo SS frets, and ebony boards. A tried and true combination.

    Hope this helps, and again I'll help out any way I can if you decide to order a custom build.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
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  13. xzacx

    xzacx Member

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    This is not accurate. While some of them are returns (which they constantly make it harder to do), they do make things specifically for the in-stock section of the site. A lot of people think this is the way to go since these are easily returnable. With the customer service and quality issues they've been having as of late, it's the only thing I'd even consider.

    You can find used American-made Strandbergs pretty easily. IMO, from having owned many, I personally think the Washburn-made versions are even better than the Sweedish ones. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Kiesels - I've never played a Vader - just making sure you know about that option since you mentioned wanting to buy American.
     
  14. drewbledsoe

    drewbledsoe Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. Can't vouch for any of the bad stories out there - all brands have them though, but my two experiences were great and the guitars are flawless. And before buying I spoke with a few owners and did my own online research. There's tons of positive stuff about Kiesel compared to the few folks talking about nightmare experiences. (and I always question the motives of the people who make those posts).
     
  15. redgold

    redgold Supporting Member

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    I decided to go Strandberg for my headless, but I also had a good Keisel experience YMMV.
     
  16. johnnyb128

    johnnyb128 Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to provide all this great information, it's helped in a lot of ways and I owe ya one.

    I'll definitely consider going the custom order route as I agree with you that it makes more sense to order exactly what I want. For example, I prefer vintage frets but can get along with medium jumbo ok so I am concerned about going full jumbo (that seems to be the default fret people get on the Vaders i've seen). If I went custom i'd do medium jumbo I think.

    I thought of another question if you had any input: The flattest radius I have is 12" on a Les Paul and that's fine for me though I semi-prefer vintage radius to go along with vintage frets, i'm kind of a Fender guy. Is the jump to 20" across the board any issue for you in your experience? I'm actually looking to have a flatter radius guitar to compliment the rest of what i've got but 20" just sounds so extreme to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  17. johnnyb128

    johnnyb128 Member

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    The reason I suspected they made a limited number for in-stock is they've got at least 3-4 Vaders on the page with the exact, very basic, spec and all at $1599. Here's an example: https://www.kieselguitars.com/guitars-in-stock/137657

    Then they've got this one which someone clearly customized with the royal ebony fingerboard, multi-piece neck, cream pickups, Dunlop strap locks, etc.: https://www.kieselguitars.com/guitars-in-stock/137613. Side note, whoever picked that particular piece of ebony might be blind ;). Never experienced "Royal Ebony" but seems like they could have selected a more uniform pattern there, probably the reason for the return...i'd return that for that reason. Everything else about that one is getting really close to what i'd want......

    I wasn't sure but both of your input clarifies it for me. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  18. drewbledsoe

    drewbledsoe Member

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    First off, the differences with fretboard radius is pretty minimal - Fenders' stupid 7.25" radius aside. Willing to bet your Fender has the now standard 9.50". Check this out. 10" radius vs. 14" radius.

    [​IMG]

    I love the 20" radius. Since guitars don't require a bow like violins, cellos, etc. There's really no need for an extreme radius. I did own a Vigier Shawn Lane model which had a zero radius neck (totally flat) and that was a bit weird. Not playing wise, but visually. Our eyes get so use to seeing a slightly convex fretboard as flat the zero radius fretboard actually looks concave. Crazy optical illusion.

    Re: Frets.

    I don't like tall frets because they make you have to control your finger pressure more to insure good intonation. If you tune your low E pressing down lightly at the 5th fret it'll be slightly out of tune if you then press down hard. And I don't like short frets because I find it harder to get really low action with them. That's why medium jumbo is my go to.
     
  19. johnnyb128

    johnnyb128 Member

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    Perfect, I suspected exactly what you said but it's reaffirming to hear it from a live person especially someone who's been playing for a long while. That 10->14 comparison is pretty hilarious but after thinking a little about it even a fractional difference could mean a nice lowering of action. I guess the point is you're not going to notice a huge difference playability wise outside of opening up lower action going from 12-20.

    Thankfully nobody that'll vehemently defend 7.5" radii will click on a Vader Multiscale thread or you'd be in for a huge fight with those words, hahahahahaha!!! I've got a '64 AVRI Tele and a Road Worn 60's Strat and the spec is 7.5" (reality might be different) but I've also got an early 90's Strat Plus with 9.5" - I actually do feel a difference between 7.5 and 9.5 but I'm guessing as you get closer to flat the differences in feel are diminishing.

    You're awesome man, thanks a lot. Great, great info.

    Edit: wanted to say the Road Worn has 6105 frets (narrow Jumbo) and i'm ok with them although they sometimes do feel like speed bumps. I'm still working on applying less pressure, it's a long and slow process to break the death grip though. The '64 AVRI has vintage tiny frets and the Plus has somewhere in-between (6100 i think).
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  20. drewbledsoe

    drewbledsoe Member

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    At my age you can't imagine how much this means to me. :D:D:D:D:D
     
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