Kinda depressed after what should have been a great gigging experience.

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Tbone135, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. Tbone135

    Tbone135 Member

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    I got the opportunity to play with some excellent musicians and great guys through the weekend, but I'm bummed out about it since hearing the soundboard recordings this morning. The other player sounded great on it, and my rig sounded distant and washed out. I went through a DRRI + pedalboard and a tele/ES-135 combo. The other player went with a PRS + similar pedalboard to a Budda 30 watter. My rig sounded great onstage, but I shudder thinking that it could've sounded so terrible to the PA. Just venting, I suppose.
     
  2. jmadill

    jmadill Gold Supporting Member

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    Just remember, the soundboard only gets as much signal that is necessary to balance out what the amp puts out and the front of house system.

    That means if your amp is loud on stage, there will be less going through the board, and much of what you are hearing may be bleed thru on the other mics on the stage.

    In a live show, what the house hears will always be more important than what gets recorded, so there's still a good chance that you and your gear sounded great.

    -jm
     
  3. Tbone135

    Tbone135 Member

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    Yeah, hopefully the crowd got a better mix than what I heard. This soundman gives me fits though. I work really hard on my sound, and I hate when I get results like I heard today.
     
  4. Joe Boy

    Joe Boy Member

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    I'm thinking your sound guy did it on purpose.
     
  5. derekd

    derekd Supporting Member

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    I wouldn't sweat it. We regularly listen to recordings at the board for quick feedback, and live almost always sounds better in my experience when I run sound.
     
  6. Shawn S.

    Shawn S. Member

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    Fear the sound guy. They're out to get us.
     
  7. Tbone135

    Tbone135 Member

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    He's a nice guy, he just doesn't know sound like he thinks he does. Plus the other player sounded fantastic through on the disc.
     
  8. Shawn S.

    Shawn S. Member

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    That's a common problem. In seriousness, I'm sure he had the best of intentions. Maybe it's the amp? (duck!), and by that I mean, the DRRI has less punch in the middle like what I'd think a Budda would have, along with him using a PRS which is a very powerful guitar in the midrange maybe just sounds more full and more there. Maybe your level on stage was good and balanced, but if he took an amp that isn't quite there in the mid so much, and dropped it, it'd be very noticeable.

    Don't take what I say too seriously, I don't really know what I'm talking about. Everything I say when it comes to tone and sound seems so distant from what others consider.

    With that said, a DRRI is a great amp and sits great in the mix, but maybe teamed up under the right conditions, at the right place in the world at the right time with the humidity variety; might dip a bit from what's expected.

    That dips a phenomenon. Sometimes things sound great, sometimes the same exact thing/situation doesn't.
     
  9. roknfnrol

    roknfnrol Silver Supporting Member

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    My last gig:

    Soundguy: "do I need to give you all the 'stage volume' speech"

    Me: "only if you want to, I ignore that speech every time all the time" ;)
     
  10. ToneLounge

    ToneLounge Guitar Maker Silver Supporting Member

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    While after gig audio review can be enlightening, I have found it's a slippery slope when it causes you to start second guessing your experience. I consider playing live an "in the moment" experience, and focus on making the song/moment happen. Poor note choices, clams, gear tweaks and such are never remembered by your audience - but they will remember the great time they had watching you with their friends, dancing, worshipping, whatever.

    It's quite possible the tone you had last night was perfect for the room, created excitement, and in part... made the moment happen.

    Now for discussion sake: mic type and placement can have a huge impact on your sound... (now about that slope:crazy)
     
  11. Shiny McShine

    Shiny McShine Member

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    In my humble experience, I always record what is present coming from the stage by using large cardioid microphones from the perspective of the audience for best results.

    I will never record from the board.
     
  12. KSKONDOR

    KSKONDOR Member

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    I agree...It's hard to judge your performance based on the board.
     
  13. 3 Mile Stone

    3 Mile Stone Silver Supporting Member

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    +1 on that as well. Live mikes give you a much better idea of what the audience is actually hearing. Try this. Get your self one of those new relatively inexpensive digital recorder with the built in mic and see for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  14. Joe Gamble

    Joe Gamble Member

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    Absolutely. I wouldn't ever bother with soundboard mixes. I heard some of the best cats on the planet sound like doo-doo on those. It's also one of the worst things you can do for your ego.:p

    Your tele/DRRI was probably cutting really well without the aid of too much PA. The PRS probably not so much. This could be why you are sounding mosquito-ish on the recording. If you were digging it on stage and no one complained I'll bet it was just right.
     
  15. Grun

    Grun Member

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    Next time get one of those little self contained recorders and make your own recording of what the house was actually hearing.
     
  16. jjboogie

    jjboogie Member

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    99% of the time Soundboard recordings sound awful to me........most sound guys are paying more attention to getting a good mix for the venue than for the recording so the recording aspects gets no TLC! Plus a lot of those boards are not really designed for recording even if they have some capability........

    Don't worry about it......I have done so many gigs were my rig sounded phenomenal to me and manager who sits out front then only later hear the recording off the board and it makes me want to puke! :barf
     
  17. russ6100

    russ6100 Member

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    jmadill responded correctly.

    A straight tap off the board (the same mix that's going to the mains) is naturally not representative of what you sounded like out front, for the reasons that jmadill already gave you.

    Unless you have evidence that it sounded badly out front, you have no reason to blame your sound man for anything.

    That sort of board tap is only good for letting you guys know if you were in tune, rhythmically on, etc.. - the levels mean zero.
     
  18. mad dog

    mad dog Silver Supporting Member

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    This is a reassuring discussion, as I had the same experience two Friday's ago. On stage, it felt great. Hard to tell sound, as we were loud, amps were miked but monitors had little or nothing. (No soundcheck.) My bassplayer takes a crappy little recorder and tapes it. I heard that and it totally spoiled my weekend. Very different than what I remember. I'm virtually non-existant on the tape.

    Thinking more rationally, I trust my own perceptions more than a crappy little tape recorder, which wasn't even in front of me. What sticks with me is how fragile the memory of live music is ... it's almost an altered consciousness to begin with. Very easy to doubt it, and once I heard that tape I was filled with doubts.
     
  19. Redhouse-Blues

    Redhouse-Blues Member

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    I agree! I had the same experience this weekend, I played two gig's in two different room's and recorded them from the board. On stage and in the room everything sounded good I thought and was told. But when I listen back to the recording's, I didn't like what I heard at all, I was hardly in the mix.
     
  20. niangelo

    niangelo Member

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    Like these guys said, your volume on the recording is directly proportional to your stage volume. If you're loud on stage, you're giving the sound guy less dynamic range to have you in the mix, and you'll get turned down.

    Unless the recording was post-produced to recreate the actual house levels, or you actually got to stand in front of the stage while someone played your guitar, you'll never know what the mix really sounds like. Direct-from-board recordings provide terrible reference.
     

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