KLON true bypass, TBS argument IMO

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Cary Chilton, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Cary Chilton

    Cary Chilton Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,476
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Location:
    Canada
    I just wanted to add from an old thread, that I enjoyed and agree with PerryR and Ericb on their views. The Klon does color your amp a tiny bit when bypassed. Yes this could improve the mid scooped voicing of most Fender amps, but maybe not a Vox or a Marshall. The "sell" that BillF wanted to give me on the phone was that the Klon has a special way to shorten up to a 50 foot cord running to your amp at all times( via buffer) and that is possible ONLY due to a non TBS switch. OK, but I already own a boutique buffer pedal for that purpose already. The whole Pete Cornish essay doesn't make much of an impression to me because you can easily buy or get a boutique buffer (full sized pots, etc) that wil make sure your pups aren't loaded down and the you retain the highs of your original signal. So the Klon's special interaction isn't too mysterious though a GREAT pedal. :dude
     
  2. Mark Robinson

    Mark Robinson Member

    Messages:
    7,025
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    I just go by ear. I have a homebrewed loop box to isolate out any stomps which do stuff I don't like, when bypassed.

    The dirty little underside of the hard-wired bypass types is that some are not shrewdly designed or wired and really pop with an annoyingly loud thump, when you turn them on or off. That's one nice benefit of buffered types, no pops. And if the buffer isn't complementary, my ears will tell me. And if I go through a gig without using a stomp, so long. It stays home.
     
  3. 58lespaulman

    58lespaulman Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    I will say that the Klon's buffer is awsome, because I don't hear any lose in tone or anything like that, and yes it does help out the chain...
     
  4. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I've been having some serious issues with the Klon's buffer lately. I loose low end and get a high mid emphasis that I don't care for.

    After doing some research here and other forums, I'm wonder inf prehaps the Klon just doesn't like my George L cables.

    Has anyone had any experience with using the Klon with other cables that made the Klon's buffer less obtrusive??
     
  5. Seegs

    Seegs Member

    Messages:
    10,074
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    It's not the Klon...my GL's are gone because of exactly what you are hearing...

    The Klons buffer definitly does color to my ears...it seems to thicken rather than thin the tone and I don't hear a high-mid emphasis...but its buffer is one that does so in a positive way...

    Just about any cables besides GL's will get rid of the high mid-loss of bass emphasis...it depends on your budget...I have tried Bayou...Klotz ... Evidence and others all with great results...

    Chow,
    Seegs
     
  6. cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

    Messages:
    257
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Seegs do you think that a single GeorgeL in the chain will have that effect?
     
  7. Seegs

    Seegs Member

    Messages:
    10,074
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    Hey CB...I meant my long runs...that was the biggest offender...I could not handle using em after I tried the other cables...I would not use even one for my long runs...I noticed the effect when I went straight into my Deluxe and had no bass and total fizz...using any other cable turned my Deluxe into a great amp....

    after I switched to EA cables I still kept my pb wired with GL's and I was ok with it until Chrissy came over with EA patch cables and we replaced my GL Pb connections one by one...on my pb I could still see using one or two GL's in a pinch...

    After that I rewired my pb with EA patch cables as well...but it was to a lesser but still noticeable degree that the GL pb connectioins bothered me...

    Chow,
    Seegs
     
  8. pacomc79

    pacomc79 Member

    Messages:
    1,518
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Location:
    Atlanta, Ga
    The VHT Valveulator is a very good buffer if you need one.

    I keep an old Morley Bad horsie Wah in the chain for the buffer circuit, it's cheap and it works for me.
     
  9. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Hey Seegs,

    Thanks for the info!!! I was about to mod my Klon for TB, but I think I will try some different cables first.

    Alex
     
  10. Seegs

    Seegs Member

    Messages:
    10,074
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    Hey Alex...what led me to this point was that I was about to sell my 64 Deluxe as everyone sounded killer on it but me...I took it to jams and let everyone use it trying to figure this out...everyone one that used it...no matter what skill level...what guitar...what pickups was getting nicer tone than me...I was the only one using the GL cables...when I switched cables I too sounded great on my Deluxe...

    When I think back on all the speakers...pickups and pedals that I evaluated and rejected when using the GL cables it makes me want to try them all again...!!

    Good luck I'm almost sure you will like your Klon better with ohter cables...!!

    Chow,
    Seegs
     
  11. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Hey Seegs...

    Thanks for all the help. Any other cable suggestions besides EA??

    Just curious.

    Alex
     
  12. Seegs

    Seegs Member

    Messages:
    10,074
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    For the money the Bayous are nice...I found em a little congested in the mids and not as open as the EAs but the price is right ...they sound good and are well made...I guess the Lavas are similar...Klotz LaGranges are also really nice as were the cheaper standard Klotzs with the molded ends...

    Hendrix is singing the praise of the Vovox cables and Lord Valve supposedly has nice cables for a good price...

    It kinda depends on what your budget is...just to check out to see if the GLs are really at fault I think the Bayous would be a good place to start at a minimum investment...

    Chow,
    Seegs
     
  13. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Okay....

    I went and tried out the EA cables.... and you're totally right. They make a huge difference. The Klon just doesn't like the George L's... I picked up a 15' to run from my guitar to my board and have a 10' on order to run from my board to my amp.

    So far with just the one cable, I got alot of low-end back with the Klon in line. Now I'm searching for nice patch cables, as I've swapped out the i/o cords to the Klon, and that help out too.

    Thanks again Seegs.. I super appreciate your help on this! Right off I hear in the EA cables a dimensionality to them that is a perfect match for my style of playing. Much more depth of tone in the low mids than the GL's.... and I have yet to break them in.

    regards,


    Alex
     
  14. Seegs

    Seegs Member

    Messages:
    10,074
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    Cool Alex glad I could help...

    I would recommend the EA patch cables as well...I think there is an fx kit avaliable where you can make your own...

    that's what I use...only downside is that they are a little stiff and cause of the Neutrik connectors take up more space but the sonic improvements are worth it IMO

    Chow,
    Seegs
     
  15. hendrix2430

    hendrix2430 Member

    Messages:
    1,229
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Location:
    Paris, France
    I agree with Stewart, there are a lot of better options out there. The GL are just so easy to use for pedalboard...however I'm about to make the switch from GL to something else for my board.

    I like VoVox cables. I think these are amazing cables, and though not cheap, the difference was more than subtle for me.
     
  16. Gril Grissom

    Gril Grissom Member

    Messages:
    326
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Location:
    midwest
    please excuse my ignorance, who is EA?
    is there a website

    Thanks!
     
  17. 85db

    85db Member

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    georgeandleo,

    Apparently I'm not the only one who had exactly the same conversation with Bill F about the buffer in Klon mudding up the tone. I'm using my Klon with Deluxe Reverb and George L cables. To me ears Klon's bypass does color the sound a lot and the coloring isn't the most pleasent. This is why I don't want it in the loop. I also tried to explain to Bill that Pete Cornish's theory is correct only in the context of long cables and that this problem gets solved every day with dedicated impedance converter units (i.e. Valvulator) but I don't think I got through... I do have a Valvulator before Klon but since Klon contains its own buffer I now must use external switcher to take it out of the loop. It's a double expense: you pay for the buffer Klon AND the switcher! Klon is an extraordinary pedal with an extraordinary sound. I give my kudos to Bill for making such an awesome pedal. But I wish he considered that 90% of people using Klon use it in conjunction with other pedals. Bill could do an experiment and offer Klons in two versions "buffers" and "True By-pass". I'll guess that there will be a plenty of orders for a TBS Klon.
     
  18. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Gril,

    EA stands for Evidence Audio. http://www.evidenceaudio.com

    Their cables are the best thing I've done for my rig in years... Coincidentally just like Seegs, I'm getting rid of effects and slimming down because I'm so happy with my tone, I don't really feel the need for them anymore... If I don't use my vibe in the next few rehearsals, it's next on the chopping block.

    Dima...

    You GOT to get rid of those George L's. At the very LEAST replace your main cables to and from your pedal board. Seegs was totally right.... The Klon's buffer just hates the GL's. I've spent the last few months tweaking my rig like crazy trying to find a way to deal with the Klon's buffer. I even took it off my board for a couple of weeks, but misssed it too much. Finally, just as I was about to mod it to be True-Bypass (seriously.. I just got the fulltone 3pdt switch I ordered in the mail yesterday) I see this thread... learn all about how the GL's don't play well with certain pedal buffers... then drove to San Mateo (the nearest EA dealer)... and end up swapping out my main cables with EA's. Were talking SERIOUS MAJOR improvement... At last, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel.

    Then I started swapping out patch cables... just to see if I could get even closer to the sound of having the klon out of the chain entirely... And YEP! Even the GL short smaller gauge patch cables don't like the Klon. I have on order some Melody cable from EA for patch cables, as it's thinner gauge and will work on my board better. It's also cheaper.

    But until my EA patch cable arrives, I found the best improvement was to simply replace my patch cables that go to and from the Klon directly. (I didn't have enough old spares to replace all the GL's on my board or I would have)

    I know people are dedicated to there GL's... and I certainly don't want to slag them. They served me good for many years... but I sure as hell wish I knew about this thread years ago... could have saved my many many headaches!!!
     
  19. 85db

    85db Member

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    duende,

    Yes, I'm hearing Evidence cables are the most balanced... and I do have a problem with highs in my pedalboard. How do I know? I tweak treble knobs and adjust treble sides of my pickups all the time. I'd hate to loose the investment I made into GL cables but it's nobody's fault that I'm such a gear slut that I'm willing drop another $200 on cables :)...

    Does Evidence make short patch cables with attachable jacks the GL style? Also how do they compare to those Bayou cables that many on this board are impressed with?
     
  20. duende

    duende Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    San Francisco
    You know... I haven't tried the Bayou's but I'm sure they're great. As far as EA making attachable jacks like GL... NO not yet at least. Basically you have to find some Neutrik, or G&H jacks that will fit your board and then solder them to the bulk EA cable that they sell. Or you can just custom order patch cables from them.

    I decided on the EA's ultimately when I took my Klon and my GL's to the music store and AB's them with the EA's. It was a no brainer really. Then I AB'd playing the guitar direct into the amp... and that's when I was particularly sold on the EA's. I heard the sound I wanted. It was right there...

    Simple as that really.
     

Share This Page